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Excellent, relaxing holiday, still have oodles of food in the house, happy children, and somehow the house is still CLEAN. I call this a success. I spent the good part of yesterday surfing fics I've earmarked, old comms I used to actively follow, and I've come to the following conclusion: there is a lot of craptastic characterization out there. More than good. And I'm pissed, and not gonna take anymore. (Oooh! I sound so tough!) I'm kinda joking. ONLY NOT.



My first online fandom, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: The Series. Here is the most important thing I can say about this fandom: SPIKE IS A MOTHER SCRATCHING KILLER. He does not burst into tears because ____ won't climb out of bed and carry him to the coffee pot and hand feed him sweets. He does not mewl like a kitten. He does not immediately get on all fours, look over his shoulder, a single tear glistening on his cheek and quietly whisper to be ravished. Buffy is not a bitch for being disgusted with herself for frolicking with the enemy. She had NEVER had wild sex for the sake of sex before and THAT REQUIRES A PERIOD OF ADJUSTMENT. Tara was a mouse, and she didn't mother EVERYONE. Just Dawn. And sometimes Willow. OMG XANDER IS STRAIGHT. *pisses off 2/3 of my flist* But if you are going to make him gay? And I've read a few fics where it's done well, GIVE ME A REASON TO BELIEVE HE'S LETTING HIMSELF BE POLED BY THE ENEMY, OKAY? Oh, and he LOVED Anya. He did. Quit glossing over that so you can make two pretty bodies hump.

OMFG WESLEY IS STRAIGHT. *pisses off another chunk* BRITISH DOES NOT EQUAL GAY. THAT IS AN OLD CLICHE. It's tired, folks. He got more tail than any other man on the show! He LOVED Fred. I didn't believe it either, but then I re-watched S5 and yep. He loved her. Lorne is the GAY ONE. And should NEVER have smut fics written about him. Gunn was very smart, and even though he is black, didn't NATURALLY AND CONTINUOUSLY talk like a Crip. That's... kinda racist. ANGEL. Just... I think most people should leave him alone. He appears very simple, but is quite complex. Also, he didn't speak in MULTIPLE PARAGRAPH SOLILOQUIES. EVER. AND HE DOESN'T BREATHE. Because he is the undead. So, watch those gasps, shuddering breaths, "held his breath as..." Also? He doesn't look into a mirror and FIX HIS HAIR. Thank god the bad writers have left my Connor alone. Have yet to come across bad Connor fic. *whew*

[ETA so the world doesn't come crashing down around me!] Okay. Can I imagine scenarios where Xander and Wesley were bi-curious? Experimented? AND STILL BE IN CHARACTER?? Yes. Do I think that the CHARACTERS identified as straight ultimately? Yes. Do I get bugged by SHITTY characterization that is NOT meant as a parody? YES. And I'm obviously one of the few who sees them this way (ultimately straight). This is also meant as a laugh, so let's not forget that I am not publishing a book on fandom rules, because I would totally suck at that. I'm referring to crappy fic that was written in between classes to get your lab partner hot and NO pretense of being good characterization/storytelling. Because it seems to be proliferating in all of the fandoms I read and it makes the baby Satan cry. Which is really hard to do, because he's baby Satan. Carry on!

Moving on to my first fandom ever, Star Wars. Fortunately, the Teens of Woe haven't gotten their claws into the Imperial Trilogy (the original 4-6), so that's fairly safe. But if I ever come across an emo, cutting, angst-ridden Ewok/Wookie fic, imma come after whoever with a bat. Unless it's meant to be hilarious. And it better be. *scrubs brain* Now. MY OTP: Anakin and Obi-Wan. Also, Ewan/Hayden. The teens got their claws into that one over the summer and RUINED MY OTP. Okay, when you are still figuring out your own sexuality? You should probably leave such complicated relationships like closeted homosexuals/pan-sexuality alone. I'm not saying the old line of "if you haven't HAD sex you can't WRITE sex," because I don't necessarily believe that. HOWEVER. If you want to write a story that involves complications from the characters having to deal with Adult Situations.... YOU SHOULD BE AN ADULT.

This goes for all of them: Just because two men are dating, (or two women) that doesn't mean one is the "man" and one is the "woman." That's insulting to homosexual couples, first of all. As one of my gay couple friends explained to a ding-dong who asked them that question, "I'm Scott and he's Bill." There are other dynamics to gay men (and women) than the Tough Dominant Bad Guy and the Crybaby Pushover Screaming Nelly Bottom. In fact, it can be more interesting if you EXPLORE OTHER PERSONALITY TYPES. Ahem. It's cliche, and it's BAD. And then there's the whole "NOT CANON" thing.

Men don't burst into tears. Men don't slide down the wall, filled with Woe and think of chocolate ice cream. Men don't bury their face in their kitty-cat and sigh wistfully about why Big Mean Tough Topper won't bang them into oblivion in their manginas. You know who does that? Chicks I hate. You should try interacting with Real Live Men and observe their behavior and not learn everything you know about men from bad fanfiction. Also? That could be a way that you get some real sex, and will stop using words like LEAKING COCKS. Or talking about how beautiful cocks are. Because cocks are impressive and ergonomic, but they aren't beautiful. Actually, they're kinda funny looking. Oh, and cocks don't weep, sob, or cry. I want to slap the back of your head when you write that. And call in a prescription for antibiotics, because that is a clear sign of the clap, or possibly syphillis.

Harry Potter. Oh, dear god. Stop making the kids have sex with their parents. Stop making Snape out to be this misunderstood woobie. Lucius Malfoy is not secretly good. MRS. WEASLEY IS THE BEST MOTHER IN THE WORLD, AND I WANT TO BE A WEASLEY, SO QUIT MAKING HER A BAD PERSON!!! *cries* Draco is NOT a woobie! He is NOT good underneath! He is a FERRET and sneaky and nasty and is MORE INTERESTING THAT WAY. Harry is not a dick. He is a young boy and is not malicious, and I can't even begin to understand why this came about. Okay, must be the Griffyndor backlash from all the Pro-Slytherins... Ginny Weasley is not a whore! Methinks some girls are a bit jealous at the thought of her being well-liked and a red-head? I don't know. Just... for christssake, did you NOT read the books? They aren't banging all over the place. And finally, Weasley is my King. I love Ron Weasley most of all, and ultimately I like the gen fic, because they aren't sexualized in the book, and STOP MAKING HERMIONE A WHORE FOR SNAPE!! *cries bitterly*

Pirates of the Carribean. James Norrington and Jack Sparrow are the most interesting pairing in the whole damn movie, and I'll tell you why. Because they have a cat and mouse relationship which requires STORY. PWP is not interesting to me. Jack/Will does NOTHING for me. Why? Why are they together? It isn't canon, IMO. Now. James and Jack share a love of the sea. Of captaining ships. One chose the navy, the other chose the easy route, both think the other made a horrible choice. They fight, there's give and take, there's that thin line between love and hate. They hate each other because they see themselves in the other. As in, if a different choice had been made, they would be in opposite situations (and I think they may explore that in the sequels.) Plus, opposites attract. That being said, a Commodore of the Royal Navy isn't going to roll over and spread his legs for a pirate! ...willingly. They aren't going to hold hands and skip, and if I read one more fic like that... GAH!! A Commodore isn't going to "introduce" to his ship-mates his boyfriend. They aren't going to swap knitting patterns, and I have ACTUALLY SEEN THIS IN A FIC. For god's sake they are MEN! And a pirate is about as manly as you're going to get. Yes, yes, Depp wasn't butch, but he was when he had to be! He was clever enough to know when to pull out the sword, and when to use his wits. Norrington is a man of action first. A man of duty. He isn't going to cuddle his pirate lover at the helm and "help Jack steer the boat." What the FUCK?? Please, just write me an interesting story, and if there's sex, make me believe they would do it. And then make them do it like animals, because they wouldn't be tender about it! Okay, maybe the eigth time they'd finally kiss. *wibbles at the thought*

Little House on the Prairie. Heh, I'm totally joking. Laura and Nellie were TOTALLY in love. *snerk*

Ultimately, I just want the immature morons who don't understand nuance, complexity, etc. to stop turning men into WOMEN I WOULD PUNCH. And I'm not a violent person. Quit making one person in the relationship a crybaby. A weiner. A sobbing, needy, DRESS-WEARING mess, because you are MARY SUEING. Yes, I've said it. When you put Spike in a dress, you are putting yourself in his place and getting punished for being undesirable (or whatever you tell yourself that makes you Bad and Unwanted) by the Big Mean Butch Topper. Or do us all a favor and CHANGE THEIR NAMES TO QUINTON AND MORTMANCY. Or Bill and Ted. Because you've made the characters that BROUGHT YOU INTO FANDOM UNRECOGNIZABLE. They are no longer the characters from the show/book/movie. They aren't, and don't kid yourself into thinking you've unearthed their TRUE SELF.

Last, but not least, getting a comment with a notice of a misspelled word is NOT A FLAME. Getting a comment with a beta-type reply is NOT A FLAME. I've gotten those, and I'm GRATEFUL for them, because it makes me fix something incorrect and makes my story better! If you cannot take criticism, keep your fic in your black composition notebook and share it with your buddies in study hall. NOW WRITE THIS DOWN: DEFINATELY is not a word!!!!! Never was, never will be. DEFINITELY. SEQUEL has an "e," not an "a." Punctuation goes INSIDE quotation marks. PLEASE learn when to use THEN and THAN. THAN signifies an option between two or more things, THEN is a measure of time. There should be a break between paragraphs. THIS IS NOT AN OPTION. I have used words improperly. I have been called to task on it. And guess what? It made me use language better - more effectively. It's okay to be corrected. My first fics were horrible, and I got criticism. IT MAKES YOU A BETTER WRITER. GET A FRICKIN' BETA. Someone who is a BETTER WRITER THAN YOU. Someone who LOVES to edit, and most importantly, is GOOD AT IT. You'll be glad you did.

*deep shuddery breath* Okay. Thanks. This rant should be considered my opinion, not Doctrine.. Now, I'm going to use up some of these gift cards and get some loot. And feel free to rec GOOD fic to me, especially PoTC I may not know about.

(whispers: there will be more Gud Summries tomorrow. Dear gott en himmel.)

Comments

( 198 comments — Leave a comment )
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yin_again
Dec. 27th, 2005 08:08 am (UTC)
cocks are impressive and ergonomic

I want the tee shirt!

Also, I love you. That second-to-last paragraph should be filmed and shown at Christmas every year.

But, Xander's pretty gay.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 08:11 am (UTC)
That would be the best T-Shirt ever, wouldn't it? heee!!!

(Ha ha ha! You know I'm just ruffling y'all's feathers with Xander. I mean, Sue's my BFFLJ, for Pete's sake. It's the whole: "one of them has to be a nelly" thing that drives me NOOOTS.)
bitchygrrl
Dec. 27th, 2005 08:22 am (UTC)
cocks are impressive and ergonomic I may need to make an icon of that.

See this is why we need you in the Ewan/Hayden fandom *puppy eyes* *remembers the Japanese teahouse* *cries for the loss to the fandom*

stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 08:50 am (UTC)
*cries* But there is so much CRAP in our OTP! They soured me and started making me hate Hayden! They made him a nelly girl and he ISN'T. Being quiet doesn't mean NELLY. Theboy played competitive sports. IRON STREAK THROUGH HIM. He's just quiet about it. GAH, that's what I mean about nuanced personalities. They just want black/white and I can't STAND IT.

(oh, I loved that story. I keep trying to finish it - soon. I just need to STAY AWAY from the bad!fic so I can love those two again.) *hugs you TIGHT*
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cherusha
Dec. 27th, 2005 08:32 am (UTC)
HA HA HA! I love you.

For the PotC rant, oh yes, rant. ::hearts::

Jack and Norrington are not some giant woobies! They'd snark, they'd fight, they'd challenge each other, they'd drive each other bonkers, they'd shag, and then they'd snark some more. And when they do finally have emotions "attached to the hotness" (heh), they're not going to all of a sudden drop the snark and start braiding each other's hair. Norrington's a pragmatic man; Jack is a pragmatic man (albeit in his own way). Norrington is honorable and duty-bound and not going to drop trou in a torrent of lust, and Jack is in love with freedom more than anything else, so if you want to get them together, please, please make it believeable. AND NORRINGTON WOULD NEVER EVER RAPE SOMEONE OMG BITCH, PLZ! HE IS AN ANTAGONIST IN THE MOVIE, NOT A VILLAIN LEARN THE DIFFERENCE. *ahem*


Hmmm... other than that, I once read a Mulder/Chewie fic. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 08:48 am (UTC)
OH, NO YOU DID NOT! Why???? Why would Mulder have anything to do with Chewie?? *questions EVERYTHING*

GAH. James a RAPIST?? I've missed that one, fortunately. And you are EXACTLY RIGHT: antagonist is not the same as a VILLAIN. Your comment is SMACK ON with my way of thinking of those two. *cough* Then again, you have certainly been an influence in my love of that pairing. *grin*

You are perfect. *squish*
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bitchygrrl
Dec. 27th, 2005 09:01 am (UTC)
Or If you are gonna go OOC label it crackfic!
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 09:38 am (UTC)
Correct!
likeadeuce
Dec. 27th, 2005 09:06 am (UTC)
Gunn was very smart, and even though he is black, didn't NATURALLY AND CONTINUOUSLY talk like a Crip.

I love you so much right now I could cry.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 09:38 am (UTC)
I mean, SERIOUSLY. Who are these people, and why haven't they been smacked?
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dlgood
Dec. 27th, 2005 09:44 am (UTC)
The Chicks You Hate
cocks are impressive and ergonomic, but they aren't beautiful. Actually, they're kinda funny looking

This is very true, and cannot be stressed enough. The greatness of the dick lies in functionality? I can write my name in the snow - can you do that? I'm a guy, and I have decent amount of self-esteem, and even I think my dick looks kinda weird. You know what's beautiful? A nice round pair of tits.

OMFG WESLEY IS STRAIGHT

OMFG! Wesley will do anything at least once, if it appears to be ill-advised and personally painful. I'm not saying that to make a point about his sexuality or anything, but I can be sold on Bi-sexual Wesley. Plus, he's British.

I just want the immature morons who don't understand nuance, complexity, etc. to stop turning men into WOMEN I WOULD PUNCH.

You and my older sister would like to punch the same sorts of girls. These are the sorts of girls who would have their chains yanked by my less honorable cohorts when I was a younger fellow, and then would complain to other people, who would then tell me how much they wanted to punch them...

stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 09:51 am (UTC)
HAHA!! Actually, I *can* write my name in the snow, I just have to run really fast.

And I concur on dicks' appearance and bewbies. Yes. Which doesn't mean I don't REALLY ENJOY the cock. Because I do.

And you know, I can buy an experimental Wesley. But I think he's more straight than anything else. Mainly, I'm just sick of the nelly/weiner blanket being thrown over characters bcause they aren't Macho with pulsing muscles and Rage. That's just not interesting, and strikes me as a bit elementary and a cheat.

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mirasol
Dec. 27th, 2005 09:49 am (UTC)
*loves you like whoa*

You know what I hate? Because I don't hate those things that you mention - I just get really ticked off by them.

And Xander is bi (but that's just my opinion).

Anyway, it's those fics where everyone in the entire world is gay. I would ask where the babies come from but I realise that the answer must be mpregs.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 09:53 am (UTC)
HEEEEEE!!!! I will carry the hate for you, Claire. *gets a backpack and FILLS IT*

Yeah, the "everyone is gay" stuff. I imagine that's from the need to show how Open Minded the writer is and how Beautiful Homosexuality is. Which, good! Great. Very supportive. Now quit writing harmful stereotypes and write about REAL PEOPLE. (*cough* that are fictional) Who happen to be gay. Or straight. Or... into animal costumes, I don't know.
(Deleted comment)
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 10:17 am (UTC)
Heeee!! And I *know* you agree with me on the stop making Buffy a villain bit. JEEEEEZ.

*squishes you and the gorditas*

Feliz Navidad, Prospero ano y felicidad! (pretend I put the tildes in there, okay?)
trepkos
Dec. 27th, 2005 10:06 am (UTC)
Men don't burst into tears.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on that.
Unless your definition of a man is "someone who doesn't burst into tears."
trepkos
Dec. 27th, 2005 10:06 am (UTC)
I mean, look - Spike did!
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floweringjudas
Dec. 27th, 2005 10:13 am (UTC)
Re: Sparrington: SO MUCH WORD. WORD ALL OVER THE PLACE. IT IS DRIPPING DOWN THE WALLS.

Though re: Mrs Weasley: NUH UH YOU ARE WRONG I respectfully disagree.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 10:16 am (UTC)
AHahahaha!!! *kicks Percy in the NUTS* I kid! I kid.

Sparrington!! Has the potential to be the BEST PAIRING OF ALL. And these little girls RUIN it for me. Stop that!!!

*whistles Weasley is our King and wishes for a jumper of my own*
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savoytruffle
Dec. 27th, 2005 10:34 am (UTC)
GET A FRICKIN' BETA. Someone who is a BETTER WRITER THAN YOU. Someone who LOVES to edit, and most importantly, is GOOD AT IT.

Man, it drives me fucking nuts when people have like 6 "betas" listed and say how wonderful their betas are and how the story would never have gotten finished without them and then I read the typo-ridden, badly-characterized, completely implausible story and I think WTF did these "betas" actually do? Read your story in .5 seconds and then go "squee!OMG!thatwassohotgreatwonderfuliloveyou"? Cause, yeah, that's helpful.

At least when someone says a story is unbeta'd, you've received fair warning.

And yeah, Xander loved Anya. Also, Spike loved Buffy. But together they are gay, gay, gay - a state which, however, does not involve any crying from either of them except in exceptional circumstances.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 10:40 am (UTC)
HEEEEE!! Yes to the crying in exceptional circumstances. Like, say: DEATH of a loved one.

Oh, they get their BFFs to beta, which means - I wrote a weird kink for ewe, omg are you hot, tellmetellmetellme and *post!*
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julia_here
Dec. 27th, 2005 11:09 am (UTC)
HEE! to all of it; I've just gotten through a v. long Sentinel fic wherein I have finally seen the ultimate "slashwriters make men talk like fourteen-year-old girls, and it was sufficient to turn me off fic for the day.

On punctuation: I thought I knew how to punctuate dialogue, I really did, and then my beta (who is a good beta) and a couple of pro writers convinced me I was wrong, and now I'm both inconsistant and permanently confused about it.I got The Elements of Style, illustrated edition, for Christmas, and I believe I'll take its word on the matter from now on. Or, you know, just stop writing dialogue.

I'd like to add separate to your spelling sore spots. There's a rat in separate, folks.

Julia, and nobody, ever, should write Angel/us, because he's prone to take over your life.

Also "
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 11:12 am (UTC)
YES!! A rat in separate. Good remembrin' tool. I'm prone to misspell words in comments, because my fingers are flying fast and I'm in a hurry to CLICK. But fic? If I've misspelled, TELL ME. That is, if my whip-crack grammarian beta doens't catch it first.

(I have Elements of Style on my tool bar. And two dictionaries, thesauruses, etc. Words are good. And gooder when you use them right.) :D
ruric
Dec. 27th, 2005 11:10 am (UTC)
Ultimately, I just want the immature morons who don't understand nuance, complexity, etc. to stop turning men into WOMEN I WOULD PUNCH. And I'm not a violent person. Quit making one person in the relationship a crybaby. A weiner. A sobbing, needy, DRESS-WEARING mess, because you are MARY SUEING.

I think KNOW I love you.

Despite the fact that I may well have the odd leaking/weeping cock in my older fic *G* you have just articulated everything I've been biting my tongue not to say about so much of the fic that is out there.

The feminization/w00bification and the total AU-ing of characters I know and love does not inspire me to comment on an author's story other than to say - "WTF show were you watching because it certainly wasn't the one I was watching."

I'm committing a drive by friending without introducing myself (*waves, smiles brightly* Hi!) and am linking to this from my LJ.

Thanks for a wonderful rant.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 11:14 am (UTC)
Hello! Welcome, welcome, and it's always slink off quietly day in case I push the wrong button. :D

I just... YEAH. What show were they watching?? Just change the names, call it original fic, and leave my characters ALONE.
sweptawaybayou
Dec. 27th, 2005 11:50 am (UTC)
Dude ... calm down!

*gives you alcohol*

Wow. What a rant, bay~bee. I am impressed and I agree with almost everything ...

Also, he didn't speak in MULTIPLE PARAGRAPH SOLILOQUIES.

Actually, Angel could be rather wordy at times. One more thing I love about him. When he wanted to do something on his own? He was very quiet, monosyllabic even. But! When Angel was explaining himself and/or his motives? When Angel wanted help from others he talked. A lot.

:)

He doesn't look into a mirror and FIX HIS HAIR.

*dies*

*is ded*

**smooches you all up**
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 01:48 pm (UTC)
O_O

Dood. DId you just tell me to calm down? *flies into a SUPER MEGA RAGE*

*with tights*
*and a mask with coordinating cape*
*burninates the WORLD*
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rosewildeirish
Dec. 27th, 2005 11:52 am (UTC)
Here via a link from uberaeryn, and I love, love, love what you say...but:

AND HE DOESN'T BREATHE. Because he is the undead. So, watch those gasps, shuddering breaths, "held his breath as..."

...but it's canon! Heh. I know they say he doesn't breathe, but I particularly liked the ep where he offers to rescue Xander and Willow, trapped in the boiler room of the school that's filling with gas, because "I don't need to breathe", when just previous to that he was panting hard from his exertions.

*ducks*

No, I know it's because you're using flesh and blood actors, not unholy undead creatures of abomination, but it amuses me greatly when I spot things like that in the show.

They got better at it, though. Heh.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 01:46 pm (UTC)
Bwah! Oh, there are a few eps where you can see their reflections, too. Eh. Cheap budget, speedy schedule to get it on air. But come on! You know what I mean! :D
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altyronsmaker
Dec. 27th, 2005 11:54 am (UTC)
Grrreat, just great. Now? I'm gonna hafta go back and read through all my shit just to see if I've made Xander a nelly. And ugh, I hate it when they make Spike cry. Gah, makes me want to bash my brains in. *pukes*

Oh, and Xander's definitely bi. Gotta be. Or maybe he's just....fluid in his sexuality...*ponders the situation*

umm, do ya mind if I friend ya? Your wanks and rants always crack me up. ;)
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 01:45 pm (UTC)
Haha, I knew the Spanderers would gently poke me for that one. :D I'm waiting for Sue to get online and flame me.

You may certainly friend me, with no worries if later you change your mind!

*passes the plate of fudge*
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(Deleted comment)
cynthia_arrow
Dec. 27th, 2005 12:09 pm (UTC)
uberaeryn is pimping out your rant, and I'm so glad, even if those aren't my fandoms. Made me laugh so hard I cried, mainly because it's true. Esepcially liked the paragraph on the penis. BWAH! Anyone who writes about how beautiful one is has apparently never seen one up close. You're also going to make me think twice about all those "leaking cocks" in my stories, although I have yet to make one weep or cry. Thanks.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 01:44 pm (UTC)
Hee! Now, I recognize that the leaking cock thing is a particular squick of mine. Mainly from my many hours in bio/medical classes based on STDs. :D

I hear leaking, and I'm looking for an Rx.

*paints on black velvet a GLORIOUS COCK surrounded by daisies and butterflies*
fish_23
Dec. 27th, 2005 12:44 pm (UTC)
Dude. Duuuuude. Do you know how much love for you I have at this very moment? I gasped in wonder and delight like a kid at Christmas unwrapping a bike, or Spike being filled tenderly with his husbands penis as they go to impregnate him with their babies of love.

Your rant is a thing of beauty and I...I could cry like an emasculated vampire over it. Hold me stoney, hold me!

ps. Don't you know that ladies aren't meant to have opinions or use caps?
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 01:42 pm (UTC)
Ahahaha!! Now, you know I'm just building on everything we've talked about, right? Everything you believe in whole-heartedly?

*makes hors d'ouvers for everyone in my heels and pearls like a good lady*
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beadattitude
Dec. 27th, 2005 01:48 pm (UTC)
First of all, get you ass over here with some leftovers. This is the downside to having holidays at my MIL's, because I never get to have cheesecake for brekkie. ::sobs::

Second of all, HEE! and AMEN! I loathe, loathe, loathe the over-femming of Wes and Spike, the Bitchization of Buffy (OMG, she's not always shrill and vindictive.) In fact I'm pissed off at the vilifying of one character so the other characters can get it on. If you can't find a plausible scenario, uh....maybe you shouldn't go there.

Joss himself has said that it was gonna be either Xander or Willow that was gonna turn up gay, and he certainly planted enough skittery homophobic moments for that with Xander. So I don't have a problem with that. And of course he loved Anya. I read a fic where he was sneaking around with Spike and became increasingly grossed out by her body and it made me furious. I do have a problem with overly syrupy renditions of Gay Xander and Spike,and Wesley the Wimpy but then again, I don't like too much on my pancakes either.

Wes did love Fred, no lie. It was a love for quite a while that was very Up on a Pedistal-y and a bit unreal, but then again, that seems to have been a pattern for him to make make the object of his affections rather exhalted. Except for Lilah, of course. He vowed to be Angel's "faithful" servant and there was an awful lot of mancrushing going on before the first great rift, when Angel went all obsessive on Darla. I think the seeds are there for him to swing both ways.

Gaying Everyone up is a big problem for me, although admittedly, I'm the co-writer of a fic where the four main protagonists are dudes doing it. (Or eventually doing it.) It sorta happened that way 'cause my co-writer is a big G/W shipper.

My biggest grammatical pet peeve? "Loose" for "lose" and vice versa. I don't know why but it sets my teeth on edge.

AND, I've discovered fic where Lord Peter and Bunter had a Thing. ::shudders:: EW.

Must go have Chinese Dinner with my love. ::smooches::
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:04 pm (UTC)
I GOT YOUR LEFTOVERS, TOOTSIE. Right here. *points to fridge* What? I can't them ALL dirty?

I know I'm unpopular for saying Wes and Xander aren't gay on the show. I know... And I know that stereotypes exist for a reason *cough* but that doesn't mean I'll buy into it everytime. (ie: the homophobe friend is REALLY gay - sometimes they're just afraid of the unfamiliar, or the British man is automatically gay.)

The villifying of one character for... That whole thing you said? YES. Yes yes yes.

Now come on over here and have some taters n' gravy.
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PIE????? - beadattitude - Dec. 28th, 2005 02:03 am (UTC) - Expand
viciouswishes
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:09 pm (UTC)
I disagree with Wesley. I do think that the show played him up at a gay stereotype beyond the British thing. (I'd go with bi for him.) But I can think of so many writers of Wesley that I want to smack for making him a weepy woman so I get where you're coming from.

However, I think the biggest problem with fandom is that characters have to be either straight or gay. So if you're writing Spike/Xander, Xander doesn't love Anya, and if you're writing Willow/Xander (S4 and on), Willow doesn't really love Tara and Xander would never glance too long at Riley's ass. Apply to as many other fandoms as needed.

Of course, I've been told that I think everyone's bi until proven otherwise.

Otherwise, word.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:26 pm (UTC)
See, I can accept Wesley as bi-curious, and I know that's a hot topic for you, but he was definitely interested in the ladies. I just can't stand the fics where Wesley spreads his cheeks for Angel, cries out how Fred made him sick, and that's all he's ever wanted.

You've made a very good point with the whole "straight or gay" comment. Because I don't know of many people who are 100% either. Lesbians can be attracted to a man, but that doesn't mean they want to fuck him. And vice versa. Or... they'll fuck him, but ultimately they want a woman.

There just seems to be a lack of complexity in characterizations, and I don't get why? Why wouldn't you want your fic to be intriguing? Oh. Because you're just writing fucking and you needed a quick way to get there. I see. *scrolls past the crud*
tabaqui
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:11 pm (UTC)
Oooh, i've probably pissed you off. If you've read me.
Heeeeee!

Angel fixes his hair in Pylea. And he's pretty damn upset about it, too!
*snerk*
*loves that scene*

*ahem*

I like that he's still that vain after all those years and all that sackcloth.

I want you to concrit me. Not 'Changes' which i know kinda sucks, but something i really like. Hrmmmm...
:)
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:18 pm (UTC)
Heeee!! No, no, no. See, Angel was TOTALLY vain. yes, yes he was. But since he is a VAMPIRE, why would he be looking in a MIRROR to fix his hair? You see where I'm going? I'm talking about sloppy writing where they've forgotten the rules of vampires: no walking around in day time, reflections, heaving breath - no blowing up balloons, you know. That stuff.

But hell, YEAH Angel liked to be pretty.

And I can't IMAGINE you ever pissing me off in a fic? Hmmm. Granted, I'm not a big Spander reader, so maybe you have some secret fic where Xander cuddles bunnies and cries about how Spike makes him feel like a woman? Heee!!
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kita0610
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:15 pm (UTC)
"He's compact and well muscled"-Xander on Spike
"I'm starting to think *you're* having sex with Spike"-Buffy on Xander and Spike
"Can I have sex with Riley too?"-Xander on Riley
"He's a very attractive man!"-Xander on Angel
"Is there anyone here who *hasn't* had sex together?" (Xander and Spike look at one another meaningfully then look away embarassed)-Written into ep on purpose by Jane Espenson, BtVS writer and S/X shipper

I don't ship Spander AT ALL. But if Xander is straight, I'm a baked potato.
kita0610
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:17 pm (UTC)
PS- Wesley was played in the first two seasons as if he crushed Angel. Purposefully. By writers and actors. In fact, his "girlfriend" Virginia was brought onto the show solely because the entire homoerotic vibe was getting so heavy.

So, yea. I agree with most of what you have to say, but calling these two guys OMGstraight is uh. Well. Wrong.

Now Riley, I could totally see as all het all the time...until Lar proves me wrong.
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Long ramble from a stranger herein! - hellespont - Dec. 27th, 2005 07:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Long ramble from a stranger herein! - kita0610 - Dec. 27th, 2005 09:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
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lostakasha
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:22 pm (UTC)
Thou swell! Do so love your ranty goodness!

ANGEL. Just... I think most people should leave him alone. He appears very simple, but is quite complex. There should be a test that writers have to pass before they can attempt to write Angel. Of all of the BTVS folks, his character gets completely butchered and mutiltated and oh my fucking god :::has bad Angel fic seizure on kitchen floor::::

Where was I? Oh. Yeah. No Lorne smut. Ever. (even though he does have the big Angel love, it's unrequited. End of story.)

As far as Wes goes, I think he's got a fair amount of Angel love happening -- but I could never see Angel receiprocating because it seems to me that :::ducks, runs, hides::: Angel is pretty straight.
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:34 pm (UTC)
I am not touching the Angel/straight topic with Spike's dick. *gets a fic idea* Hee!

I just saw Wesley in the traditional old school British role of servant to master. YES, I KNOW THAT HAS SLASH POTENTIAL. *cough* Wodehouse *cough* I know.

It's just... to me it's a shortcut to make two people do it. And I know I'm bucking what everyone accepts as the norm with that. My first thoughts when I was watching the show wasn't that Wes was gay AT ALL. Now Spike and Angel? I thought there was some SERIOUS backstory there. I won't even go into Connor/Angel but uhhhhhh.

But then... I'm obviously broken inside.
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menomegirl
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:35 pm (UTC)
He does not burst into tears because ____ won't climb out of bed and carry him to the coffee pot and hand feed him sweets

OMFG....word!

Buffy is not a bitch for being disgusted with herself for frolicking with the enemy.

*NODS*

OMG XANDER IS STRAIGHT.

*nods* Ummm yeah he was until he met Lindsey and they bonded over the Angel-angst. *nods*

he LOVED Anya.

Word. He did.

OMFG WESLEY IS STRAIGHT

*NODS* Yes he was. And he loved Fred and I think he loed Lilah too.

ANGEL......He appears very simple, but is quite complex.

God yes. He so is. I love writing him but I have to weigh every word.

Thank god the bad writers have left my Connor alone.

I cringe at Connor fic. Cringe at Dawn fic. It's just not my thing.

*G* Adored the rant. Thanks for the smile on my face. *hugs*









menomegirl
Dec. 27th, 2005 02:40 pm (UTC)
Oh and spell-check is a great thing, if you know, I'd remember to use it!

*g*
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lennongirl
Dec. 27th, 2005 04:30 pm (UTC)
Did you already do the promised footie post and I missed it?
/random
stoney321
Dec. 27th, 2005 04:57 pm (UTC)
Hi! No, there have been some great games (and pics) lately, so I'm trying to gather them all up for a New Year's post.

*scours gettyimages*
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