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Not a fic post, so QUIT SCROLLING.

Nothing like a pseudo-surly tone to start your week. GOOD MORNING! It is sunshiny and nice today and I have energy and no more congestion and life is fine. Had a Girl's Weekend - rented a hotel suite, had sushi, many bottles of wine, hired a masseuse to put us all to sleep and NOT in the fun way, poshcat, so sorry. I think at one point I drooled - that was when she was cracking my back, glaaaah. So grood. One girl brought me a bottle of tequila, and then the rest of my friends sat pretzel-legs waiting for me to drink it. Uh.... Whee? One obligatory shot and then back to the wine, freaks!

In other news, I got two more comments on the writer's anonymous meme. The first comment was absolute pants, if I may borrow a phrase from my Euro-pals. You can read it here. The second one, while starting to get the idea of constructive criticism, really didn't tell me anything. I mean, I'm a big girl, and I can take people pointing out errors and such, or areas of focus (see the comments above from lettered - excellent advice, well said, has had me thinking about it for a week), but telling me that I need to work on the tone of my parody fics? Which fic? How? Is it possible that tone is as subjective as well as humor when talking about something like Wee!Spike or Silence of the Hams?

And what I mean by that is: a joke that works on Miss Marple isn't necessarily going to work on South Park. And vice versa. And I've written both kinds of fics. Um, meaning the dichotomy of tone as related to humor. It would have been nice to get more information from the anony mousie, but I'm not sweating bullets. As obnoxious as this may sound, I'm not really going to take advice about how to be funny from many people. Sorry. If someone's in the biz? You bet. But I worked in the industry with some pretty damned funny people - none of them take ANYONE's advice. We just feed off each other like cannibals with cream pies and seltzer bottles.

And ultimately... I'm going to keep on keeping on and listen to the folks I respect re: technical aspects of writing. But thanks for playing, anonymous #2 - and I left it open for them to continue the discussion. Come over here if you wish to expound - it's all good.

And finally, we're trying to shake things up at a_list_celebs. We need new blood, want new characters, want funny people. I've been told it's intimidating to apply there. Wha?? No, no, no. Silly, funny, good times of all stripes. All sorts of funny are cherished and wanted. Have a celebrity that you adore? Want to make them into a parody of themselves? Are they so crazy they don't NEED to be cracked out? Write up a sample entry and email celeb_letters2U [at] hotmail .com. And if this isn't your bag, maybe you know some crazy person that would like to join? Spread the word. I'll love you for it. :D

HAPPY MONDAY!! *sticks fluffy kittens in everyone's IN box*

ETA: and the teeeeeeniest of flist trims. Not a thing personal, just journals I haven't interacted with in many months, divergent interests, etc. NOTHING personal. It's just LJ, folks. And if you want to reciprocate, fine, fine, and I'm still keeping most things public, you aren't "missing out." I'm still dorktastic for all the world to see.

Comments

( 47 comments — Leave a comment )
beadattitude
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:08 am (UTC)
I'm too lazy and cold-ridden to signout for this one.
Oh, I had something witty to say, but then I sneezed and well....most of my brain fell out.

I'm no technician, sadly, but what I love about your fic is its sheer audacity. Your willingness to go waaaaaay out on a limb and then tap dance on the leaves.

And your "smaller" less broad comidies or RPS pack a mean punch, too. I can still *see* the japaneze garden Ewan and Hayden were in, and think about it sometimes. I can picture the whole debacle of the "Twelve Days of Christmas," which too the day has me giggling in schadenfrude. Controlled, Victorian hysteria to Snyder/Wilkins ass babies. That's range, baby.

I only got one comment on my great write meme - but it was a really lovely one.
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:34 am (UTC)
*hands you a tissue* Your comment on sneezing reminded me of one of the first episodes of Third Rock From The Sun when... the girl (can't think of her name) sneezes for the first time, and practically orgasms. Then it doesn't stop and she asks to be killed. Bwah!

And thanks for the compliments, I promise I wasn't fishing! I'm always interested to hear what does and doesn't work from a technical standpoint, but if the person isn't going to go into detail... *shrugs*

Oooh! you did? I need to go check! That post is monster big, now. What page are you on, do you know? *prepares to scroll*
beadattitude
Feb. 27th, 2006 08:12 am (UTC)
Noo, I didn't think you were fishing, otherwise you'd say, "People! Tell me! Or I will inflict upon you variations of the Cream of Cum Soup until you bed for mercy."

And by technical I mean my grammar iz b.a.d.

And since we love that stuff, we'd be ominously silent until you fed us many parody fics.

I was here, I was too lazy to sign out, and I wanted to love up on you, that's all. It's right here.

Yes, tall blonde girl, Very funny. Hee. I'm about at the kill me now phase of sinus pressure and yakky cold. AND I promised my LBFF to be driver and use my car for her move. I don't have to lift anything, so I can stay in my warm car and snuffle. But it's a small town, and our circle of girlbuddies is just us two, so I gotta go.
tinpanalley
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:17 am (UTC)

Girl's weekends are nice with all the rubbing and the drinking! I need to have one of those soon!

Sorry that the criticism that you're getting is neither constructive nor real criticism. That's always frustrating!

And, for the record, your funny is the best kind of funny!
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:36 am (UTC)
That icon always makes me giggle.

"Girl's weekends are nice with all the rubbing and drinking!" Now, you KNOW people are going to take that to a nughty place, right? :D

As for the "criticism," if all you've read of mine (as far as homor fics go) is Wee!Spike, well, then I can see why you'd "buzuh?" me. But, for example, the PotC fic I'm writing is a real departure in a lot f ways for me. Lots of dialogue, lots of humor, and almost in a sit-com type scenario, I've been told. Which is fine by me.

*squish* You're an absolute dear.
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:36 am (UTC)
And pretend I spelled "humor" properly.
tinpanalley
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:58 am (UTC)

Hee! Done!

I love the "Spike thumbs up" icon too. He just looks so happy! *squeezes Spike*

Now, you KNOW people are going to take that to a nughty place, right? :D
Of course! Part of the fun! ;)

*glomps you*

richerthanqueen
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:47 am (UTC)
Say you like this story. Say you find it equal parts funny, engaging and adventurous. And moreover, say one or more of the characters in this particular story are quite pleasing to the eye....


I'm sure I don't need to expound any further.
richerthanqueen
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:54 am (UTC)
Disclaimer: JKR is not affiliated with either one of these mice posts. JKR is far too busy a women to be doing such things. If anything, JKR would have minions do her bidding.
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:59 am (UTC)
no, no, that's plenty of information to go on.

Clearly you are hinting that Ron and Hermione will bump uglies and Draco dies in Book 7. And I thank you for that hint.

Now, if only you could ensure that Neville gets a larger piece of the spotlight...

(Heee!)
richerthanqueen
Feb. 27th, 2006 08:16 am (UTC)
Clearly there has recently been a lack of coffee in your life.

That is not what I have been referring to. *finger point*
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 08:19 am (UTC)
*grabs the pot and drinks straight from the caraffe*

OH. Clearly you are talking about something else. *nope, drinks more* Hahaha!
richerthanqueen
Feb. 27th, 2006 08:25 am (UTC)
I can have top-tier studio executives cowering at my feet with a mere snap of my fingers, I'll have you know.
(Deleted comment)
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 08:53 am (UTC)
Becauth listhping isth fun. And the asth-hole that put an "sth" in "listhp" should be shot.

I thought the tap-dancing on leaves was funny, too. Did you read the tone one? Care to clue me in on that? *sits at your feet, pen poised over notebook*
likeadeuce
Feb. 27th, 2006 08:43 am (UTC)
ok, i read that first thread and I *highly* suspect you of having a semi-anonymous conversation with yourself, because who else could say all those things so amusingly?

I didn't comment on anybody's posts to that thread, b/c anonymity makes me uncomfortable. Personally, I really enjoy the parody fics -- particularly the Godfather one, because Wesley/Michael and Spike/Sonny is so damn perfect. But I do think these parodies really depend on the reader being up on 3 things at once: the canon, the fanon (including common stupid badfic writer tricks), AND the text being parodied -- so, say, I don't know "Silence of the Lambs" well enough to appreciate that parody as well. And while the "Sound of music" parody made me laugh, I felt like I was missing a lot b/c I could tell you were mocking certain tendencies in fanfic (MPREG, over-feminizing slash, etc) which come from the kind of fics that I don't read -- so I didn't get a lot of the jokes until they were explained to me. So I di That's an issue with parody in general, but I think there are some parodies that work when the audience only has a general idea of the subject, while yours require intimate knowledge. That's not a value judgment, just an observation on how writing interacts with audience.
I'm sure you're familiar with this issue, having a background in comedy (does the phrase "the Dennis Miller ratio" mean anything to you?)

This goes to the larger issue of obscurity and applies to a lot of non-parody fic. Or for that matter, non-fanfic by a lot of very good writers -- sometimes, the more clever and allusive a story is, the more it limits the audience. The whole issue reminds me of something Randall Jarrell said about Ezra Pound (hahahaha -- I just got to modernist poetry criticism from pregnant-Spike in a dress! I should talk about being obscure!) OF course, I don't actually have the quote, but his basic point is that Pound's poetry works if you have read the exact same books that he has read, and shared the exact same experiences that he has lived, finishing with the observation that Pound "scribbled notes on the margins of the universe" and that to understand his work, you had to know the original yourself.

Gah. I really do sound like a pretentious yob, don't I? BtVS-era Wesley would totally buy me dinner for this post. Trying to boil down my point -- I'm not saying that your parodies ARE as obscure as esoteric modern poetry, but that that's what you risk when making your work so dependent on the reader sharing your understanding and view of multiple texts.

stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 08:57 am (UTC)
AHAHAHA! Okay, someone on my flist - it should be PRETTY OBVIOUS WHO - came in AFTER the first anonymous post. The first one is legit, the thread, however, was us taking the piss out of the original post. Hee!

Oooh, and as for the intimate knowledge, okay. I can completely understand that. I think that's true for most comedy, however. SOme jokes are broad, and some are inside - alll within something as widely accepted as the Airplane movies, for example. Something fly over your head. (Dennis Miller ratio - BWAH!)

And again, I can agree with the points you brought up. That being said, I don't ONLY write parody fics. I have humor fics that have nothing to do with parody. "Let Go and Let Joss" for example. All you need is a working knowledge of BtVS or AtS for that. Or any of the Andrew fics. More broad, sit-com humor. But, that's expecting people to read everything I've done, and NO ONE has done that, so I'll just get over myself right now.)
likeadeuce
Feb. 27th, 2006 12:39 pm (UTC)
oh, ok; I was confused.

I don't understand the original comment, either, and I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with it, just mentioning my thoughts on the parody fics (obviously I've read and raved about other fics you've written, including the Obi/Anakin, and a Wes/Fred and several Connor stories that I've rec'd all over the place -- so I do remember you write other things :))

The "Dennis Miller ratio" line is from the Simpsons, I think, and I bring it up as a good example of the line that comedy -- or really any form that depends on the audience's knowledge -- has to walk. I mean, God knows, I'm sure if I did the anonymous comment meme, somebody would say, "Cut it with all the Shakespeare and Eliot already". And as a teacher I've got to work with people who have NO cultural background knowledge, and become offended by the suggestion that they should.

I do think there is somewhat of a special case with parodies as they may rely on intimate knowledge of the source material; and your parodies are a special special case b/c to fully appreciate them, the reader has to have intimate knowledge of 2 to 3 knowledge-bases at once. And I don't think it's the exactly the same thing as the odd reference on BtVS or "Simpsons" or "Gilmore Girls" flying over the audience's head; because the very basis of what the fic is about -- either the circumstances where it takes place or the actual thing you're mocking in the parody -- requires the knowledge.
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 04:24 pm (UTC)
*nods* See, and for any parody to work, there has to be an understanding of either general pop-culture, or a specific pop-culture.

Scream, the movie. It works better if you know all the in-jokes about horror flicks. But it's still an effective movie, regardless. Or something like Airplane. It's mocking all of the disaster movies of the 70s, but you don't need to know that to enjoy it. But when you catch all of the in-jokes if you DO know the source material, then it's even more hilarious.

"Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue." That's just funny, dammit.

And it's funny to me to think that my parody fics require someone to work for the joke, in a way. because it just is so funny to me, I guess. The whole "Looks like somebody 'bout to lose a mulatto vampire ass-baby." GOD. I'm just broken, Carrie. There's no hope for me. SAVE YOURSELF!!!
(Deleted comment)
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 09:26 am (UTC)
Well, if I can be obnoxious about my own fic, I think my making The Mayor Hannibal Lecter was inspired genius. Ahahaha! I mean, I thought I did something okay, because I forgot we aren't supposed to like our own stuff....

And seriously? LOST referenced "What's Happening?"

Hey Shirl! Oh, Rog! I loooooooooved that show. I'm basically avoiding mopping my floors, Sue.
lettered
Feb. 27th, 2006 10:14 am (UTC)
I used to feel the same way about Gilmore Girls. I don't watch it any more, but the pop culture references used to be truly a. clever, b. obscure, c. hysterical if you actually got them, and (d) perhaps not hysterical, but you're just so proud you actually GOT one you're amused anyway.

And yeah on Stoney's parodies. There were a whole lotta little things I wouldn't've gotten if I didn't know SoM like the back of my hand. What's interesting is she managed to pick out a couple of the things to point and laugh at that fans've made a big deal of/pointed and laughed at back when I was really into the SoM fandom. That made it feel like it was referencing not only Buffyverse, Buffyverse fanon, and SoM, but SoM fanon is well, which is very clever when I'm guessing she's never been involved in SoM fandom.

I loved that Keyzer Sozed line.
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 10:52 am (UTC)
Ha! No, I've not participated in any Sound of Music fandom - I've just watched it countless times, went on the tour, and fantisized about having a singing nun make me clothes out of drapery.

:D
(Deleted comment)
lettered
Feb. 27th, 2006 03:10 pm (UTC)
Well, SoM fanon isn't quite like Buffy fanon because the SoM fandom is not so very big (insofar as fic goes. Naturally there're wads of fans, but not so much online fandom type people). Mostly when I said SoM fanon I meant stuff that's been discussed/joked about/ficced to death. Like that A/S "well except for that one time" line.

I'm an Olympic skating fan, though not as big as some people, but I was one year old when Torvill and Dean did the famous Bolero. Someone linked to a vid of it recently and I'm pissed I can't watch it.

And that quote is classic; I think I heard it before I knew you. And yeah that Stoney person, she's a card.
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 04:25 pm (UTC)
AHAHAHA!

I MADE UP MAN PANTS!!! *cries single, perfect tear* <-- see how I did that there?
likeadeuce
Feb. 27th, 2006 06:12 pm (UTC)
OK, now Torvill & Dean references? THOSE I get!

Next week, the slam dunk and the Fosbury flop -- canon or fanon?

MAN PANTS!
(Deleted comment)
likeadeuce
Feb. 27th, 2006 12:43 pm (UTC)
Oddly, I've seen SotL multiple times and The Godfather only once; for whatever reason, Godfather imprinted in a way that Silence didn't. (Maybe because I was so busy checking my closet for Hannibal Lecter).

See my comment above in that I do see a distinction between parody and the odd obscure fastflying reference, because parody requires knowledge of the very thing that's being mocked, as a basis before you can even start to appreciate it.
(Deleted comment)
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 04:26 pm (UTC)
*cough* You like Godfather because it's WESLEY. Or rather, Michael echos the archetype you are drawn to, yes?
likeadeuce
Feb. 27th, 2006 06:11 pm (UTC)
No question, though I saw "Godfather" long before any of my fannish loves. Michael is so very much my type :).

Also, I must admit -- mulatto ass-babies = ALWAYS funny.
lynnenne
Feb. 27th, 2006 08:47 am (UTC)
This is why I didn't do that meme. I find that general comments about one's writing are too broad to be helpful. I'd rather have people critique a specific fic, so they can pick out examples of things that need work. I think writing (for me, at least) is one of those things you learn best by doing.
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 09:02 am (UTC)
I was under the misconception that people WOULD pick out a specific fic. Which is my fault. But again, TKP pulled out specific fics, specific areas of concern, so I assumed they'd all do that. *shrugs*

And I'll agree with you 100% on the aspect of writing is something you need to DO to get better. Of course, having someone poke and prod along the way is incredibly helpful. My current beta for the PotC fic I'm writing is very abrupt and to the point with things I need to focus on. At one point, I had about three pages of exposition for something COMPLETELY unrelated to the main story, but in my head I needed to justify how I got to point B. She made me cut all of it out. And I had toiled for DAYS on it - researching, etc. *woe*

Excellent advice, and made me realize that I'm doing a lot of "Diana Gabaldoning" as in: overwhelming the reader with minutia to create the characters and their settings, instead of letting the narrative flow and dialogue just... flow.
dodyskin
Feb. 27th, 2006 11:45 am (UTC)
OTOH, if a lot of people say very similar things, all independently, that can be quite a specific critique in itself. Frex, on my post, mmm, let me go and pull it up.

OK: experimental poem poetry surreal poetic dream surreal distinctive unreal experimenting turgid pretension mad opaque distinct experimental poetry

Anybody sensing a pattern? :) For me that's quite useful, because it gives me a perspective I just don't have access to. And now I can go hunting, triangulate the areas that need work kind of thing? S'better than nothing, anyway, I reckon, for me. ::disclaims to the end of all time::
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 11:48 am (UTC)
Yes, yes, and was something I was hoping for, but instead got that I Mary Sue myself into my Wee!Spike miniature vampire fics.

(And I don't know how it got out that I'm 5 inches tall and like to express myself through dance, I really don't.)

I wish the anonymous person who started talking about tone actually EXPLAINED what they meant. Otherwise, the comment is meaningless to me.
dodyskin
Feb. 27th, 2006 12:41 pm (UTC)
I suspect that the person did not actually know what they meant, or could not adequately express it. There is a big difference between feeling something and being able to identify, analyse, and (re)present it coherently (hence the staggering quantity of comments on that meme about "bad characterisation" with no elaboration). S'why criticism is a skill.

I do not posess said skill in any great measure but I shall pick a story and do a line by line read through. I can do that!

::goes to helpfully meme::

stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 04:27 pm (UTC)
HURRAH!!

I will fully support any critique you feel you want to give - have just seen your last post, and wish you cold water on the nightstand and an asprin in case of headache from drinking, btw.
paynbow
Feb. 27th, 2006 10:39 am (UTC)
OMG, I had a HUGE comment and it got DELETED!!! Stupid laptop crappy excuse for a mouse that goes "back" everytime I accidentally do NOTHING.

Anywho, my point, humour is subjective. The commenter appeared to like mime. Most people would say mime is what is technically refered to as "not funny." To each his own.

Gotta love comments that are entirely unhelpful in their vagueness. "Overall good, some bits I didn't like." Okay...WHICH bits? Now it shall drive me INSANE!
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 10:54 am (UTC)
GOD DAMN LJ. *kicks it for you* Wait. GOD DAMN LAPTOP! *kicks it for you, apologizes to LJ*

MIME. Well, who doesn't like mime?? Highest form of art/humor known to man. Unless it's a monkey smoking a cigarette on roller skates, because that is BRILLIANCE.
paynbow
Feb. 27th, 2006 11:26 am (UTC)
Oh, anything with monkies is brilliance. They are prone to throwing their feces, and who doesn't love a good feces joke? And you can dress them up, so they look like small, hairy people. It's like looking in a MIRROR. A FUNNY mirror. Admittedly, there's not the same subtlty you get with mime, but subtle isn't everything.

In my ideal world, mokies enact the works of the masters of tragedy. Oedipus + monikes = HI-larious.
paynbow
Feb. 27th, 2006 11:27 am (UTC)
and by "mokies" I mean monkies. Heh.
(Deleted comment)
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 04:28 pm (UTC)
OH MY GOD. If Tiff reads that last line, she'll puke on you, you know that, right?

(I read a book today!! WTF? I'm feeding cheerins and then playing, if you're gonna be around)
crayonbreakygal
Feb. 27th, 2006 01:03 pm (UTC)
OK, um, I really didn't understand that first person at all. Trying to tell you what's funny. Huh? I know everyone has a different opinion on what's funny. That's a given. Not everyone likes parody. That's OK. But to tell you what's funny. And tone? OK. Hmmm.

I did like the other person that gave you solid concrit. POV is so important in writing. Made me think about my writing too. See, I learned something too. Now I just need to actually start writing again.
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 04:30 pm (UTC)
What amused me with the first comment was that bit about how I put myself into my parodies.

WHAT?? How?! Dear god, please explain that to me, and I promise I will shut my mouth and listen because HOW?@?@

And ditto on TKP's concrit. It was excellent, and now I'm hyper aware of it - so I'm working harder, as I should have been all along, you know? *pokes you to write*
timeofchange
Feb. 27th, 2006 06:41 pm (UTC)
I am soooo jealous of your girl's weekends. How did you get them started? How do you convince your friends to run away from their family obligations, spend money on themselves, and actually have a good time for a couple of days?
stoney321
Feb. 27th, 2006 07:05 pm (UTC)
Well, two of the girls are my walking buddies. We strap the kids in the strollers and talk the whole way. The other girl that came was a new friend to my closest friend and I - she's friends with Walking Buddy #2.

We've been talking about doing this for a few months. WB#1 and I try and get away at least once a year and pamper ourselves because we NEVER spend money on ourselves - always the kids or the house, you know? So we roped the other two into setting aside the weekend MONTHS in advance, and that's it. I laid out the frame work for what was to be expected, so if they weren't comfortable with the agenda, no harm no foul, but we ain't changing. :D

WB#1 is a great friend of mine, totally fun and fun-loving, so she feeds the group her good karma/attitude. It just goes from there! I highly recommend SOMETHING just for you and a friend to do. If we can't get away overnight, we pool together for a sitter and go get pedicures and drink margaritas. Just a few hours really helps, you know?
( 47 comments — Leave a comment )

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Are You Actually

Reading this? I'm just curious. Because that's really detail-oriented of you. Feel free to stop reading. But you can see that there's more here, so are you going to keep reading? Really? That's pretty dedicated. I'm impressed. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic, why do you get like that? See, this is the problem I have with your mother - yes. YES. I'm going there. It's time we put all of our cards on the table.

I love you, why are you doing this? After all we've been through? You don't have to be like this. You know, still reading. You could be baking a pie. And then sharing it with me.

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