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Things that make you go Hmmmm.

For anyone that knows me, you know I'm a big believer in leaving as little a footprint on this earth as possible. I conserve, recycle, compost, walk instead of drive if possible, xeriscape, educate others on water conservation, etc... I'm not perfect, but I try. Ever since I saw "An Inconvenient Truth" I've been panic stricken about the damage we're doing to the earth.

And then I watched this, produced by the UK's Channel 4. (Which apparently is controversial? Hmm. Make the decision for yourself which is truth.)<-- eta

According to the doc: We are not screwing up the world. Well, specifically, the rise in industry - therefore, the rise in CO2 - is not creating super storms, an ice age, a desert on this earth. Volcanoes put out more CO2 than all the factories of the world combined. This period of higher temps in summer, etc. are natural, and they cite a period during Chaucer's time where vineyards grew in England as far north as the Lowlands. Our weather is generated by the sun (count sun spots, and you can predict the weather, shown irrefutably, actually), which causes cosmic rays that hit our atmosphere, which generates clouds, which controls the earth's temperature. CO2 does NOT cause a change in the atmosphere's temperature, and they illustrate this with many lovely charts, from many different sources.

One thing I found particularly unsettling was how the IPCC - the outfit that literally wrote The Book On Global Warming - is made up of 2500 names - not all are scientists. In fact, many are government officials, aides, etc. Many scientists, and my FiL backed this up (he's a former NASA geologist) left the organization when they saw that the data was being manipulated to fulfill a political goal, or outright lied about. Their names were kept on the record as having gone along with the report. !!! RED FLAG.

See, if we create a panic, then people send money for research, and there were 10,000 jobs created around the world for this project. Ahhhh. Money. I see.

So yes, we need to stop depending on oil. We shouldn't throw our garbage out of our windows. We shouldn't put money into COAL. Because those things deplete our resources and are dirty, and I don't want to breathe in coal. But by driving our cars, or flying in planes, or running our AC, we are NOT causing the Apocalypse. We didn't cause Katrina. What else did they say we did? Oh, we're melting the polar ice caps.

DAMMIT, I love data that backs stuff up. This is an EXCELLENT documentary, presented BY scientist, not a spokesman that didn't understand how atmosphere works (which was Gore's big wammo.)

I still fervently believe that we should not be such voracious consumers, that pollution should be curtailed, and alternative forms of oil energy need to be developed. I do not, however, think we will fall into an ice age any time soon. Nor do I believe that mankind is controlling the weather. (And how egotistical is that, really?) The overwhelming amount of information in this hour long film is heartening.

I love such well documented SCIENCE. *pets the data* Had a convo with my FiL and he concurs with the statements made by his fellow scientists in this film. (MIT, The International Weather Foundation, etc. etc.) And now, back to the scrubbing of the house, for I have guests coming, huzzah! And most likely singing various songs in my Al Gore voice, because it makes me laugh.

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( 61 comments — Leave a comment )
kiji_kat
Apr. 18th, 2007 07:34 pm (UTC)
Quick question - you said that the documentary said that volcanoes created more CO2 than all the factories on earth combined. But did they say anything about how the CO2 output of volcanoes plus man-made CO2 output could be affecting things? This isn't to refute what you have to say (science is good!), but I am curious to see if this was addressed.

It's always been my argument that even if global warming is a natural process, we still shouldn't use that as a free pass to dump whatever we want into the air. It just makes good sense tread lightly. That, and the thought of breathing, eating, or drinking anything contaminated with harmful chemicals just gives me the willies. (Even the chlorine that's put in water supplies to prevent waterborne illness...well, I'd rather not have illness, but you have to wonder what lifelong exposure to a very poisonous agent can do to the human body. Eh, maybe I think too much.)
darlas_mom
Apr. 18th, 2007 07:37 pm (UTC)
Get a water filter. I edit medical books for a living, and the one I'm working on right now is about nothing BUT chlorinated water and how it relates to things like CV disease. It's terrifying.
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darlas_mom
Apr. 18th, 2007 07:36 pm (UTC)
That's...actually a serious relief. Whew. I've been approaching helping the environment (e.g, by not using the AC, walking instead of driving, etc.) the same way I approach dieting: not doing it and feeling guilty about it.

It's nice to know that my car and AC are not personally bringing about the end of the world.

Thanks for posting this. I think I'm gonna try to get ahold of that documentary on DVD.
stoney321
Apr. 18th, 2007 07:57 pm (UTC)
It's a fantastic read. I tend to be skeptical of most "new studies" that come out, because 1) who funded it? and 2) who funded it? *g*

We had a family friend that worked for 25 years on demonstrating the effect on children that power lines have. Their findings showed over and over again that juvenile Leukemia rates soared in children living near power grids.

The Nat'l Utility Foundation did the same study - in one year, mind - and showed without a doubt that that wasn't the case. Riiiiight. They didn't, oh, have an interest in people not freaking out about power grids, did they?
wickedgrdn
Apr. 18th, 2007 07:57 pm (UTC)
Ever seen the movie The Day after Tomorrow? Scared. the. livin'. hell. outta. me. But I'm just paranoid anyway, LOL. Reading this? Makes me feel tons better. I'm nodding my head in agreement as well about pollution and recycling and all that. And alternative resources for oil? Hell yes. Thanks for giving me a little peace of mind. I worry about stuff like this, LOL.

*sigh* :)
stoney321
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:00 pm (UTC)
That fucking anti-nukes poropaganda movie! I had NIGHTMARES for years about the apocalypse, sure to be brought about any day.

And seriously, WATCH THE DOC. You'll feel so much better knowing that you are just a wingnut on the solar system's car. Heee!
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slasheuse
Apr. 18th, 2007 07:57 pm (UTC)
That's really reassuring, but do you think the doc might make people not bothered about pollution etc, because it's not global warming?
stoney321
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:03 pm (UTC)
Well, I would hope not since they're not the same thing. This is talking about how people are trying to adopt (and have been since the 60s) this mentallity that medieval times were better for humanity. That progress in all its technological forms are bad and evil and bringing the end of the world. And if we all got rid of our cars and had vegetable plots, the world's problems will go away.

(Over simplified, of course, but then again, I spent a year and a half touring the country following the Grateful Dead with dirty hippies and this is how they feel.)

The whole point is to show that CO2 is not the engine driving climate in any way shape or form.
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poshcat
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:18 pm (UTC)
Okay, Stoney, what are you going to talk about tomorrow? Religion? Sex? Cults? Abortion? Hee! Your LJ is a hotbed of controversy OMG!! Very interesting stuff, my darling.

I am not one to get into these things (most especially online, although of course *you're* normal and respectful), but about global warming I will say that it reminds me very much of the Y2K scare. As long as someone can make money off it, I'm skeptical.

Did you ever see the clip about the guy who made fuel out of water? I'm waiting for him to be murdered or something. Now THERE'S where we should put our research dollars.

Some people in Canada are outraged our PM rejected the Kyoto accord. Of course, they were happy wee sheep when the Liberals enthusiastically signed up...and our emissions rose by 30%. I guess they only care about the talk, not the walk.

PS As an aside, I just cannot understand the culture of guns in the US. I hear what you're saying, but I can't grok it. I wouldn't live in a place where I felt the need to own a firearm. I've never touched a gun, I don't know anyone who owns a gun. Mr Posh keeps a hockey stick for protection and we make sure to lock our doors. That's enough security for us.

Now, what else do you want to tackle? Legalizing drugs? Prostitution? I'm ready! ::does jumping jacks::
stoney321
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:23 pm (UTC)
Prostitution, prostitution!! hahahahahaha.

And you know, I'm RIGHT WITH YOU on the whole skeptical mindset. What's great is how in this doc they talk to the founder of Greenpeace, and how he's just fed up with them making shit up to be angry about, ahaha. Why can't there be a movement to erradicate the world of cockroaches? Let's say they cause nipple flop! There's a harebrained idea I can get behind!

(And I'm so happy you and Mr. Posh are armed with Gretsky's #1. Hahaha! Mr. S has guns for sport/hunting. I have fired them so I know what they're like, but I'm not an avid collector/hunter, nothing of the sort. But I appreciate that you feel differently than I! And I love that you can still be my friend. *smooooch*)
brunettepet
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:28 pm (UTC)
And why is it that this statement stands out amongst all the well thought out, reassuring ones: "(Over simplified, of course, but then again, I spent a year and a half touring the country following the Grateful Dead with dirty hippies and this is how they feel.)"??? It's not just the parenthesis that caught my eye!

Just back from 10 aberrantly freezing days in Missouri where I had to see my BIL's Grateful Dead cover band play...
stoney321
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:38 pm (UTC)
Ahahahahahaha. *plays with juggle sticks and makes us veggie burritos* But seriously! I worked in the Teton National Park, too, and it's nothing but tree huggers, bless 'em! Industrialization is bad, the peasant-life is what we should all get back to...

And then I want to ask them about those Phish CDs and how they were manufactured. Or how that speaker system blasting Widespread Panic works. *G*
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trepkos
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:41 pm (UTC)
Sorry, but this is CHannel 4 - nothing to do with the BBC.
I'm afraid most of Channel 4's documentaries aren't in any way objective.
stoney321
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:43 pm (UTC)
Ah, I'll remove the BBC tag. I will say though, that the research I've been dooig since viewing (and talking with my FiL, an earth scientist) are supporting the information in this documentary. Watch and be the judge.
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shipperx
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:50 pm (UTC)
South Park has ruined me. Whenever I hear Gore I think of his protecting us from ManBearPig. In general, I tend to be unconvinced by Global Warming (inasmuch as whether or not we drive cars matters in the grand scheme of things) but I do believe that we should reduce out dependence on foreign oil and that a cleaner atmosphere is always of the good. Whether that would stop the next Hurricane Katrina... I'm doubtful.
stoney321
Apr. 18th, 2007 09:20 pm (UTC)
Just know that anytime I write "seriously" I'm thinking "Theriothly." ManBearPig.

I COMPLETELY AGREE re: oil/pollution. I'm just not going to be so egotistical that my car is causing hurricanes/flooding/the End of The WOrld. :D
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lettered
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:54 pm (UTC)
Stoney, I <3 you so bad I want to marry you.

I refrain from the global warming topic because I do *not* have the technical knowledge, the eductation, or the facts at my fingers--none of which is bad, though the fact that I've made no *effort* to access that stuff and learn for myself what is going on with the world is really, really bad.

That said, I have a very difficult time with the idea that we're bringing on Apocalypse with cars and cans and factories. That is *not* to say it's not important to keep emissions clean, to recycle, to conserve oil and get better fuel sources. Cleaner air is better for everyone, landfills fill up, forests get cut down, etc and we should really be concerned about *everything* we can do to keep our environment cleaner and better and preserved. But the idea that humans are going to bring about a meltdown always leaves me skeptical, because the idea that we can understand the weather patterns of the past four billion years and thus conclude that we are controlling it somehow leaves me skeptical also.

I'll always allow for the possibility, but having not put in the effort to learn about it...the skepticism remains greater than the grant that it could be true.

Anyway, all of which to say, I'd really like to watch that when I get home. Or tomorrow because I just got FIRED. God.
lettered
Apr. 18th, 2007 08:54 pm (UTC)
education.

eductation is the tendency to stay far from ducts.
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ex_dovil323
Apr. 18th, 2007 09:04 pm (UTC)
Though it has to be said that I haven't come across anyone in the manmade global warming camp that hasn't acknowledged that it's a naturally occuring event as well - it's just the differentiation comes from people arguing over whether it is now increasingly primarily due to the amount of crap were flinging out the atmosphere and the environment.

NZ Herald probably has about half, if not more, of stories saying that it's a crock with some independant think tank reported on, and two seconds later after I've done trolling the net on google you end up finding out that they receive money from industry groups and aren't as independant as they come across. There might be money to be made in research grants so scientists can potter about with computers, but there's a hell of a lot of money to be made (and lost) by keeping the status quo going. It's in the corporations best interest that manmade global warming is a myth (or at least perceived to be) just in the way that it was in the tabacco industries best interest that cigarettes didn't cause cancer (or at least that consumers perceived that they didn't).

In Summary: EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET US, EEEEEEHHHHH! *rubs ufo poster to bring mothership back*
ex_dovil323
Apr. 18th, 2007 09:09 pm (UTC)
Oh, but more to the point that documentary was HUGELY controversial all right and the data used shot down by some scientists. An article from the Independant (English newspaper) about it is here:

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2355956.ece
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sangueuk
Apr. 18th, 2007 09:32 pm (UTC)
I haven't had time to read all the posts in reply to this so I may be repeating but I suggest you read this

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,2032572,00.html

this has caused uproar over here. It has shaken my belief system but I'm back on board now.
stoney321
Apr. 18th, 2007 09:33 pm (UTC)
It's been linked, directly above this! I'm currently reading that article as I type. Well, I took a break, but you know what I mean. :)
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lynnenne
Apr. 18th, 2007 09:33 pm (UTC)
But... I was promised global warming!

*looks out window, sees snow*

*cries*
stoney321
Apr. 18th, 2007 09:35 pm (UTC)
Here. *pulls blankie back and sits on your cold tootsies* Better?
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romanyg
Apr. 18th, 2007 10:05 pm (UTC)
I'm one of those Bad People who hasn't seen either yet. I'm still reeling from Supersize Me. *g*

I live in one of those cities where you can *see* the air on a bad day though. *coughs* The Rich Folks, in their mountain estates,--of which I used to be one *coughs again*--look down upon us Valley Dwellers and laugh while swirling Merlot from their private label vineyard.
a2zmom
Apr. 19th, 2007 01:42 am (UTC)
As long as there's money to be made exploiting both sides of this issue, it's going to be almost impossible to know the truth.

Why, yes, I'm a cynic.
stoney321
Apr. 19th, 2007 02:34 am (UTC)
You know what? I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm just going to keep my head down, and try not to leave a mess, personally. *G*
beadbeauty
Apr. 19th, 2007 06:22 pm (UTC)
Well Al Gore DID invent the internet. Interesting documentary.

"HIPPIECRITE" which is someone who touts to others to save the environment but wastes electricity, drives a Hummer, etc.

I am not a hippiecrite but I do know I can do MORE to contribute to keeping the environment cleaner.

Thanks for sharing the link. I'll check into the other links given as well!
slasheuse
Apr. 23rd, 2007 09:35 pm (UTC)
Hey hon, hope you're doing okay. *hugs*
( 61 comments — Leave a comment )

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Are You Actually

Reading this? I'm just curious. Because that's really detail-oriented of you. Feel free to stop reading. But you can see that there's more here, so are you going to keep reading? Really? That's pretty dedicated. I'm impressed. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic, why do you get like that? See, this is the problem I have with your mother - yes. YES. I'm going there. It's time we put all of our cards on the table.

I love you, why are you doing this? After all we've been through? You don't have to be like this. You know, still reading. You could be baking a pie. And then sharing it with me.

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