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Note to new flisters: I don't normally post more than once a day - I have fear issues re: spamming your flists - but today is a two parter. For I have Horse Soap Opera Fic, and lordy lordy, I've been so happy writing it. On to the other stuff!

OKAY. Who's still watching? I confess to DVRing it and watching multiple eps in one swoop. I did watch last night and can I just say that they have done their research? And they don't have to come up with story lines? Not ONE of the story lines involving the "Greens" or "Roman's" people are created, which is fine. Just letting you know.

The "Greens" are based on the LeBaron clan, who are JACKED UP CRAZY PEOPLE. (I've talked about them before. My boss' wife was Ervil LeBaron's daughter, raised in Mexico *cough* by where Mitt Romney was born, ahem *cough* where they chained girls up in a goat pen when they got out of line. Among other things I'm not at liberty to discuss, because she could barely talk about it. A bunch of wackadoos. Ervil used women to do his dirty work, aka, kill people that opposed him (including his daughter, who was murdered in front of a congregation, her blood poured out into the dirt to "make her clean.") Those photos on the show that the Bahstan FBI agent showed Bill? That's what Ervil did to his brother, his son, three of his daughters...

So Ervil got two of his women - dressed almost IDENTICALLY to the women on the show last night - who walked in to Rulon Allred's doctor's office (he was a homeopath/gyno and a leader of one of the larger, less crazy sects) and shot him twice after getting his attention by calling his name in a question. Just like on the show last night, Rulon's son and wife were just outside and saw it happen and came running. Rulon was killed because he wouldn't "submit whole and soul" to the LeBarons, who had the Mantle of Joseph and the true priesthood. WOW. (Mantle of Joseph is a Mormon term to refer back to how charismatic Joseph Smith was. When Brigham Young took over the church after Joseph's murder, the congregation later claimed that Young had the Mantle of Joseph on his countenance, which proved that Brigham Young was the true prophet.) GOOD FUCKING HELL. Sorry, religion is crazy, people. (especially this one)

*cracks knuckles* Now that Rulon's shot, I think they're going to switch to stories from the Jeffs again, since they're modeling Roman Grant after that family of psychos. Warren Jeffs, the guy in FBI custody right now? He took over after his father, Rulon - I kid you not - died. He said the day of his father's death, "No one will lay a hand on my father's wives." And then he took them for his own. *cough* Including his mother. For a wife. And to be a wife, you have to be.. conjugal. These are the people we're dealing with. Yeauuch.

My predictions with Alby? He's going to do something similar. Maybe not boink his mom (Alby's gay, after all, even if he won't acknowledge it) but I have a strong suspicion they'll follow closely along those lines. And possibly the Blood Atonement that they've hinted at in the past. For the record, I still find it very strange that this show has adopted SO MUCH about the culture, yet doesn't have the Henricksons in garments. Because with as entrenched as Bill (and Nicki) are in the Principle, Margene would not be allowed to dress the way she does. Sleeveless shirts? Nuh uh. No Mormon adult wears sleeveless shirts. (Up until recently, I still had a problem with it, and I'm not even a Mormon anymore. That's how entrenched it is.)

The whole thing with Ben? I doubt he would be given the priesthood so quickly after "sinning." I get why in the story, it's just a minor quibble. Also, it would have been AWESOME if we saw Bill pull out his key ring and open his little vial of consecrated oil to annoint Ben's head before bestowing the priesthood on him. (That's what they were doing in the basement, btw.) Every male member of the priesthood in the Mormon (and FLDS) church has that, in case you need to give a blessing at a moment's notice. o_0 It's like holy water, but it's oil.

Other things I've noticed from headlines re: polygamists... When the Feds raided the compound a few eps back? (The family portrait ep?) Nicki's mom shouted to have the airport closed down so no one could land or take off without Roman knowing. Y HELO THAR HEADLINE.

I know y'all aren't as invested in the issues on this show like I am (I'm a bit of a freak about it, having come from that background to some degree), but I can't help but be wigged when I come across comments of people saying they think it could be cool to be polygamist, if they could be like Margene. And... all the compound stuff? All the weirdness of that cult? You're signing up for that when you marry a polygamist, no matter how normal and disconnected they seem. I like that the compound comes to their houses, disrupting things. They look so out of place in their neighborhood. Remember: polygamy is NOT polyandry. It's a RELIGION.

I remembered last night how my first husband worked for a guy from Short Creek (aka Hilldale, aka Colorado City) selling vacuum cleaners, back when we first got married. I didn't know who the guy was, I just knew my husband had a new job. Then he started telling me about these people, and how the guys seemed cool (and had money falling out of their asses) but his wives were... odd. I begged him to get a new job and eventually he did. I met his boss once and I was chilled to my bones. He looked at me like I was a piece of furniture and completely ignored that I was human. NICE. And I ditched the husband eventually, too. Hee!


I got my shooting schedule for my vampire movie, and I'll be filming the first week of September from 8pm to 8am. GAH. Good thing the Mister is home on a project so he can help with the kids... My "husband" is still up in the air. It's either Sid Haig or Burton Gilliam. !!! "Come on, boys! The way you're lolly gaggin' around here with them picks and them shovels, you'd think it was a hundert an' twenty degree. Can't be more than a hundert an' fourteen."

When I find out which day Nicholas Brendon will be filming his scenes, I'll be sure to post/take pictures/steal him and seal him up in a glass jar. [/Brocktoon]

Happy Tuesday! Now to finish up some writing.


( 35 comments — Leave a comment )
Jul. 31st, 2007 01:46 pm (UTC)
Re: the sleeveless thing. I have often wondered how those dancing Mormon families -- ie, the girl who won Dancing with the Stars this year (Julianne Hough) or the DeGrosso sisters from seasons past -- get away with wearing the skimpy outfits that are 'required' for Latin dancing. Any insights on that?
Jul. 31st, 2007 01:50 pm (UTC)
Well, a costume for "art" is one thing. It's every day dress that's monitored/examined.

There was a Mormon on the Solid Gold Dancers' troupe, and we all watched her when I was a kid - she wore more opaque hose, trufax.

(But you'll notice they don't expose more than they would in a one-piece bathing suit.)
Jul. 31st, 2007 01:48 pm (UTC)
I had no idea that the "Big Love" storylines followed reality so closely. They're positively crazy cakes. I'm really behind, and am waiting for another rainy afternoon to play catch up...I'm sure that's right around the corner.

Polygamy is so many levels of wrong for women, it puts my teeth on edge to think someone would consider it "cool."

8PM to 8AM?!? Oh how you must suffer for your art!
Jul. 31st, 2007 01:51 pm (UTC)
Oh, yeah - there hasn't been an episode YET that didn't have current or past headlines as the main focus of the show, truth be told. (I've written about it if you're interested. Hit the "big love" tag to get them.)

And I KNOW! *sigh* It's hard being a slutty vampire slayer... Hahaha. (I'll sleep during the day in my crypt</i> while the kids are in school. :D
Jul. 31st, 2007 02:01 pm (UTC)
I'm just finishing up S1, and even without the whole RL background, I find Big Love highly disconcerting. I mean, shit, when you're siding with people like Barbara's narrow-minded racist sister and you want to slap Nikki every time she goes into "protect the family at all costs like a warrior woman mode," and you want to weep with frustration when Marge finally "accepts" her place in "the family," you know something's fucked up.

I mean, all the cues are there for how you should react (boo Cindy, cheer Nikki, go awww with Marge), and you feel yourself taking that step in that direction and suddenly *bam* the harsh reminder of what it is these people are doing to each other.

I haven't seen S2, but I have an awful feeling that the Hendricksons will be eventually trodding down the same road as Roman and his ilk. They're making it so obvious right in Season 1.

Shit. And if I'm squicking harder than someone faced with a mashed up dead frog on my work desk over Big Love (as someone who doesn't know the first thing about Mormon or polygamist culture), I can only imagine how people who deal with or have dealt with this day in and day out deal with it.

And yet...I can't tear my eyes away from the damn show. I think because I'm hoping that Nikki breaks out of her brainwashing, and Marge really does get the family and friends she deserves, and Barb finally gets to be someone's "one-and-only" again and that Bill ends up buried in a shallow grave along with Roman.
Jul. 31st, 2007 02:10 pm (UTC)
*weeps on your shoulder*

THANK YOU LIZ. Yes. I am BAFFLED by people thinking their lifestyle is cool or hot. (I mean, okay. Margene is a total babe. BUT.) Just when you think the biggest problem these women face is organizing sleeping schedules, someone creepy like Albee from the compound shows and and terrorizes the women. Because the MEN HAVE ALL THE POWER.

I watched a special where they interviewed polygamist women who are "normal" in the big city (and some of them who were still on compounds themselves) and they all dryly commented on how accurate it was. (And how uncomfortable they were with all that sex on the screen. *pearl clutching*)

Boy, I'm rooting for Barb to run away from all of it, too. I've almost given up hope on Margene, and I *know* Nicki would go back to anyone in the Principle if anything changed with Bill. YEEESH.

Part of me keeps watching it like I'm a watchdog group. I'm making sure they don't go for titilization or justification of that lifestyle. I mean, again: it is not polyandry. It's all about what GOD told a MAN to do. And the woman is his PROPERTY. Gah.

(I do like how Bill's mother is being portrayed. She's a wacko. And still believes in the Principle. It's taken a very dark turn in S2 with her - very compelling TV and very frightening with how accurate to RL it is.)
Jul. 31st, 2007 02:13 pm (UTC)
OKAY. Who's still watching? Raises hand.
And while I'm not as invested in the "taken from the crazy polygamists headlines" I find it fascinating that in order for the Henrickson women to draw attention to their own needs they have to either threaten no sex or offer sex (as in Lois). That and how sad it was when Ben suddenly announced that he wanted to marry his girlfriend to their sex could be "pure" and if she didn't work out... well, he'd just get another wife. Poor Barb probably came the closest to a heart attack she ever will, all her dreams of her children living "normal" lives just went up in smoke. And if Bill really does take a fourth wife I suspect Barb will just run right out the door and keep on going.
Jul. 31st, 2007 02:20 pm (UTC)
Gah, the Ben story line is SO CREEPY. (Because I saw that shit time and again while living in Utah. Oooh, do I have stories...)

It's not uncommon for kids to get married after dating for two to three weeks. Um, they say it's because God Witnessed to them that they found their Eternal Mate. Reason says it's because they want to bone.

(Agreed with Barb + 4th wife)
... - petzipellepingo - Jul. 31st, 2007 02:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Jul. 31st, 2007 02:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
Jul. 31st, 2007 03:24 pm (UTC)
I'm still new to "Big Love" and am currently up to ep eleven in S1. You're starting to make me bite my nails worriedly and go, "Wait, what? WHAT HAPPENED WHAT HAPPENED?"

It is SO hard to try and watch them all in order when I just wanna skip ahead and make sure chars I like (all, what? Three of them?) don't die or something.

Also, am I the only one who thinks it's only a matter of time before Ben has an emotional breakdown and sleeps with either Margene or that kid who was Beaver on "Veronica Mars?"
Jul. 31st, 2007 03:27 pm (UTC)
I'll hold my tongue on the whole "emotional breakdown" issue, but I WILL say it's not Margene.

Don't read this post if you're not wanting to be spoiled, ack! ack! :D (I wouldn't want to ruin your enjoyment, is all. I have spoiler issues.)
... - darlas_mom - Jul. 31st, 2007 03:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
Jul. 31st, 2007 04:14 pm (UTC)
I actually just caught up on Season 2 yesterday. The Greenes were freaking me out before I knew about the LeBaron, now they really make my skin crawl.

I admit that it's a very confusing experience watching the show sometimes. There's moments when they show the bonds between Barb, Nicki and Margie and I can't help but think, "Well that looks really nice". But then they show life on the compound or the whole "Bill dumping Ana because Margie got involved and took his control away" and the reality slaps me in the face again. My loathing of Bill is reaching levels that it Tony Soprano years to get to. It's like they realized they made him a little too sympathetic in the first season and are pulling out all the stops now. I do wonder what message they are trying to convey with Don who polygamy leanings aside is probably the most decent male character on the show.

I'm very curious about what they have planned for Albee. I find him to be the most interesting character on the show even if I do have to cover my face during most of his scenes. I'll give it to the actor. He can just stand there and I feel like I need to take a shower.
Jul. 31st, 2007 04:18 pm (UTC)
Ick with Albee, right? The actor does a GREAT job. (remember him running away and picking up that homeless/gay guy? And then he freaks out and starts hitting himself!? I thought they were going to address the Lost Boys issue - they've done it twice in passing comments, and it's something that's really upsetting and frightening in RL.)

ANd right about the Sopranos comparison! There was always something about Tony that made me sympathetic to him, until the final season when he just turned off all emotion and we saw him through Melfi's eyes. *shudder* I'm interested in what's coming up with Nicki. CRAZY TRAIN.
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... - stoney321 - Jul. 31st, 2007 04:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - thepiratequeen - Jul. 31st, 2007 05:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
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... - stoney321 - Jul. 31st, 2007 05:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
Jul. 31st, 2007 04:45 pm (UTC)
I loves me some Big Love.

Though it does not surprise me that, amongst everything else Bill cherry-picks about his beliefs, garments are on the list.
Jul. 31st, 2007 04:52 pm (UTC)
I can almost see your point with the G's, but they are SUCH an integral part of the culture. It's a way to show your worthiness without having to show your worthiness. Most of the FLDS men I knew wore them, and they wore the old school ones that came to your ankles and wrists. It shows that you have the right to the temple, and all its blessings, and it's something the FLDS are VERY particular about it, since they feel they're living the TRUE Mormon Doctrine.

I just think it's something the directors/producers decided against because they want to show some skin. :D (And good hell, the scene with Margene and Bill last night? And Nicki unable to turn away? Whoa.)
Jul. 31st, 2007 05:34 pm (UTC)
and how the guys seemed cool (and had money falling out of their asses) but his wives were... odd.

*has flashes of 'Stepford Wives' dancing in her head*

It is your duty to kidnap Nicky and bring him to me. Or, y'know, just pinch some hair for cloning. Make sure to get the root.
Jul. 31st, 2007 05:37 pm (UTC)
Will do. And do we want a skin suit? *takes notes to be thorough*
... - cityphonelines - Jul. 31st, 2007 05:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Jul. 31st, 2007 09:08 pm (UTC)
Oh, she definitely would! It's wonderfully written, even though you need a notebook and family tree chart to fill out while reading it. Convoluted blood lines, sheesh.

I think I'll be all excited, too. I do have one day off the week I'm filming, so I think I'll use that day to rest up. What's going to be funny is I'm getting coated in self-tanner, so I'll be oompa loompa orange. No trips to the grocery store that week... :D
Jul. 31st, 2007 09:09 pm (UTC)
I'll be sure to post/take pictures/steal him and seal him up in a glass jar

Jul. 31st, 2007 09:13 pm (UTC)
*salutes* Yes, ma'am! Note to self: poke breathing holes in mailing box.
Jul. 31st, 2007 09:41 pm (UTC)
I've still been watching, though not enjoying it as much as I did before. It does get a little intense. And even knowing that it's a terrible, terrible life, I still get caught up in the drama and Hollywood of it all, and have always seen the Henricksons as pretty sympathetic, but this whole Weeber Gaming storyline, and Bill being so devious playing the Grants against the Greens, putting his family in danger, doing whatever it takes, makes me really not like him.

And I had no idea how much of this stuff actually went on! OMG RL is full of SPOILERS! And sick people. I'm pretty disgusted at that, but thanks for the education.
Jul. 31st, 2007 09:44 pm (UTC)
OMG, none of the polygamist story arcs are original!! That's why I've always been impressed with how much research they've done. (If you're interested, you can click on the polygamy tag and read all about it.)

Jul. 31st, 2007 11:45 pm (UTC)
Wow, I always love reading your take on this show. I had no idea that last night's ep was totally ripped off from Real Life Creeptasticness. *shudders*

I just want Barb and Nicki to be happy together, Margie to date someone her age, and Bill to sign up for Mars colonization. Is that too much to ask?!?!
Aug. 1st, 2007 12:48 am (UTC)
Nicki is SO in love with Barb, right? But she's all repressed and can't express it!??! Gah to Margene. She's so innocent even though this season is about her "coming in to her own." Geh. Bill is just turning creepier and creepier (and more like his family) every episode.

Ooooh, I have LOADS of links on the plygs - the writers are reading the same blogs I am. (The Jeffs group that ran to Texas? A few of those guys have online blogs where they communicate with each other. Um... if I can find them, why can't the FBI?)
Aug. 1st, 2007 04:31 am (UTC)
I'm loving me the Big Love :-)

I've read mention of the LeBaron's but not detailed accounts. Still, I had the distinct feeling that they were taking from RL again. The Short Creek/Jeffs parallels were *very* strong. And since you point out the details, seriously creeptastic.

I almost thought they were backing off of that at the beginning of the season by having their FBI manhunt catch the other guy. Then again, there's so much crazy there's plenty to go around.

I definitely think that (oh so very gay) Albie is going to cross over a line as soon as he has his shot at power. I'm betting that they deprogrammed him at one point to get rid of his 'unnatural leanings.'

I know the distinctions that you're drawing between polyandry and polygamy, but I still see the root problem with the polygamy on the show is fundamentalist religion underlying it all. I think that's part of what we're seeing by watching the Hendricksons. Bill is definitely coming at it from a traditional pov, even though he feels that he's enlightened as opposed to where he came from. However, his secrets from the wives and this firm delusion of leadership being fully on his shoulders puts him in the same compound as the others.

Nicki is of course coming from the traditional pov, but she's about to snap and go on a journey of self-explorations - should be interesting. Barb believes in family, but not the principle. In a way, she's on the fence about whether their relationship is polygamy or polyandry. Margene, doesn't even get the principal; she's polyandry. And obviously this is the source of most of their problems that they are never all on the same page about what their relationship is and what they want it to be.

While they may never fully turn their face from the patriarchal nature of Mormonism, I do think that they have the possibility of growing their relationship into one of equals ... they may not figure that out, but the possibility is there.

They're turning this show on it's head and I love it :-D
Aug. 1st, 2007 12:46 pm (UTC)
I still see the root problem with the polygamy on the show is fundamentalist religion underlying it all.

That's exactly my point. Polyandry is a choice by adults. Polygamy is a religious mandate that strips women of their power and installs a man at their head. I think Margene sees their relationship as a poly relationship (and that's how I see her on the show, too) while clearly NIcki comes from The Principle believing God will cast her out of heaven if she doesn't live it. Barb... Well, Barb was raised in the Mormon faith, so it's a dirty secret to her religious past. She's still coming to terms with the beliefs she's held sacred.

And honestly with Bill? I don't think he's going at it in an enlightened way. For me, he's following the ORIGINAL polygamist Mormon path: Joseph Smith. Joe was a serious womanizer, but he truly loved them. He just wanted to be with all of them and let them live happily. (Granted he was a lying sack of shit, but still.) He deluded himself into thinking god was pleased with him. Young and Co. made it something else, and as the years went on, polygamy became the twisted thing it is today.

My feelings are Barb and Nicki approach this whole thing from a Mormon perspective, which completely omits polyandry (because polyandry is sinful.) Margene, who knows nothing about Mormonism, is approaching this from the polyandry perspective. Which is what drives Nicki up the wall, because it cheapens their relationship in her eyes.
( 35 comments — Leave a comment )


Are You Actually

Reading this? I'm just curious. Because that's really detail-oriented of you. Feel free to stop reading. But you can see that there's more here, so are you going to keep reading? Really? That's pretty dedicated. I'm impressed. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic, why do you get like that? See, this is the problem I have with your mother - yes. YES. I'm going there. It's time we put all of our cards on the table.

I love you, why are you doing this? After all we've been through? You don't have to be like this. You know, still reading. You could be baking a pie. And then sharing it with me.

Time Wot It Is

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