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Let's be clear: religious freedom does not supersede basic human rights. It does not override the basic (AND FIRST) principle of the United States of America, that being the freedom to life, LIBERTY and the pursuit of happiness. How can you know happiness if you live in a cave of fear and lies? When you're not allowed beyond the "sacred" doors of your cave? When you're threatened with "eternal damnation" - which, let me explain how it's different in the Mormon/Fundy religion. It's not Hell with Satan torturing your soul, it's being cast into Outer Darkness. Or rather, your soul is destroyed, horrors! *eye roll* Freaking religion. Anyway. Back to the rant.

So now we have these "poor mothers" crying to the media about their poor children, the lies the CPS is telling them, yadda yadda. Let me tell you who these "mothers" are. They are Merrill Jessop's daughters. Merrill Jessop is the right hand man of Warren Jeffs and the one that took over the running of the YFZ ranch after his arrest (And the former husband to Carolyn Jessop, current talk-show gal who wrote the book Escaped.) These women - his daughters - were also "given" to Warren a few years back to add to his cadre of wives and to get Merrill moving up the ladder towards prophet-hood himself. These women are still in contact with Warren, in jail. But yes, let's all sway our opinion towards sympathizing with these "poor women" and children. (My sympathies lie with the children, I thank you.)

These women sat in chairs in the "temple" and watched their under-aged (under 16 in the state of Texas with parental consent, under 18 without) daughters be married to whomever the "prophet" said. Be it their UNCLES, their COUSINS, or in Warren Jeffs' case, their STEP-SON. (Warren Jeffs took his father's wives when he became prophet. TOOK THEM. Ahem.) They sat in chairs outside the "sealing room" where those men raped those girls (oh, excuse me, consummated? *gag*) to make their marriages "legitimate." Those mothers held their daughter's babies while their husbands beat the ever loving shit out of them for having an opinion. Those mothers cowered "peacefully" on the floor while Warren Jeffs preached about how to "make a sweet mother" and proceeded to yank half of one of his wives' hair out of her head and kicked her in the ribs. In a church service.

Those poor mothers were poor women at one point: the point when they were forced into a marriage. But then they became complicit. They turned a deaf ear to their daughters. They turned a deaf ear to a few of their sons who were thrown away to keep the competition in check. They forgot their own tears, they swallowed their rage, and they made their daughters suffer the same fate.

They do not have my sympathy. They abused their children, they raised them to believe utter lies and ugliness, and they should be held accountable. (The young ones that haven't been completely turned into monsters should be distributed across the state to various womens shelters to get the help they need.) I swear to (the) god (of your choice), if they let these bastards off, they'll just go deeper into hiding. Point in fact: Short Creek raid in 1953, they got off. This spawned the LeBaron family (that I've talked about before - the ones that had my former co-worker tied up in a goat pen for most of her formative years?) that raised assassins that killed the other leader, Rulon Allred. The Kingston family, the Bristlines... all the modern creeps that the weirdos in Big love are based on. They get weirder after every scare. I can't imagine how they can get worse, but they will. *tears out hair*

And I read today that a lot of the FLDS men are getting "sympathy" from their LDS "brethren." GAAAH!! See?!?! If the Mormon Church really hated them so much, why oh why did they leave them there to fester in the desert sun for over 50 years?? And then the Utah polygamy task force dared to bitch about the Texas Rangers "ruining" their (the Utahns) rapport with the other cult leaders?! Holy crap, did I fall into bizarro land? I'm so proud to be a Texan, y'all. I mean, I'm always proud to be a Texan, but shit on a shingle, this makes me want to kiss those cowboys right on the lips for getting in there and doing it right.

Comments

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ann1962
Apr. 16th, 2008 01:39 pm (UTC)
You are awesome.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:26 pm (UTC)
Well, that's what my icon says... Hahahahah. <3
drusplace
Apr. 16th, 2008 01:40 pm (UTC)
I don't normally condone violence or torture or anything like that...But some people just make me want to do not nice things...And then I remember that I do not want to go down to their level. I'm glad you discuss this on your lj, as terrible as it is to read.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:26 pm (UTC)
I'm for the "stick them in jail and let it be known they hurt kids" kind of torture. Let the criminals deal with them, Oz style.
:(
copykween
Apr. 16th, 2008 01:55 pm (UTC)
I keep seeing articles about these women boo-hooing that they can't have access to their kids. Well, not if they're going to turn around and put them straight back into forced sexual slavery! Monsters, indeed. *shudders*
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:27 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that's EXACTLY what they're going to do. OH! And it's important to note that two of them weren't even LIVING at the YFZ ranch. Also, their children (boys) are grown so... WTF?
chantal87
Apr. 16th, 2008 01:55 pm (UTC)
This whole situation makes my brain bleed.
And you my dear rock my world!
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:28 pm (UTC)
I am SO WORRIED that they'll get off like the last time. I'm hoping not. Which... is why I'm not shutting up. :D
tabaqui
Apr. 16th, 2008 01:59 pm (UTC)
It makes me ill with rage. Please, please, please, let this get those kids *free*. I would hope that any woman or man who left the church would come talk to them, that any 'thrown away' boy would come and talk to them, that the littlest ones are so little they soon forget and that the *truth* of what the fuck goes on their is smeared across every newspaper front page and tv screen.

I have zero tolerance for this kind of shite. Just, zero. Every 'elder' who was complicit in what happened should be in jail, now, forever.

*seethes*

Some YFZ woman on the news last night, all 'i know that what they *the children* are going through right now is worse than anything they went through here' FUCKING BULLSHIT.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:29 pm (UTC)
They need to go to homes FAR AWAY from the American West. There are plyg communes in Utah, Az, Nevada, Idaho, N and S Dakota, Colorado, New Mexico, and Texas (but not for long, whooo!) GAH.

I'm right there with you re: who's complicit. Hell to the yeah.

I think being beaten and raped is A LOT WORSE than getting immunizations. I mean... COME THE FUCK ON.
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liz_marcs
Apr. 16th, 2008 02:12 pm (UTC)
A saw bits and pieces on CNN last night. It was funny to see Anderson Cooper and the person reporting on the story basically calling bullshit on the "poor, grieving mothers."


Anderson (paraphrased): So, d'ya believe 'em?

Reporter (paraphrased): Oh, shit no.

Anderson (paraphrased): Why not?

Reporter (paraphrased): I had to pull teeth to get even names. Let alone ages. Plus, they all answered my questions the exact same way, using the exact same words.

Anderson (paraphrased): Yeah, sounded to me like they're reading from a script, too.

Reporter (paraphrased): Let's just saying they're trying to use the media to drum up sympathy, and doing a shitty job of it, too.

Anderson (paraphrased): Gee! Ya think?

Reporter (paraphrased): Ex-FLDS members who've escaped from these wackaloons say they're lying sacks of shit, every last one. Plus, everything I've heard and seen since I've been talking to these people says to me that the State of Texas is the only good guy here because, sheet, these people are kree-pee.

Anderson (paraphrased): AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Busted!


Then they go one to Boutiful, BC where they interview another lying sack of shit showing "sympathy" for his brethren. They said he was some Bishop in the FLDS and got tossed out on his ear by Warren Jeffs.

Reporter (paraphrased): Okay, when the Texas Rangers went ape on the FLDS compound, they found a row of beds inside the temple that *ahem* had been used. What do you say to that?

Laying Sack of Shit (paraphrased): Oh, I'm sure it was for the family who was responsible for caretaking the temple.

Reporter's expression: Wow! You are a lying sack of shit!


What really got me with the bishop up in British Columbia is that he's all bragging that he's got more than 100 kids and something like 22 wives. Then he goes on to brag that he's not a very good father, and really it's "the fillies" who want to have the kids and he's just obliging, and that the only reason why he was out of bed on a Sunday instead of lounging around and taking it easy was because reporter-guy was a guest.

I mean, what the fuck? Are you kidding me? That's a case of not even trying to win someone over to your side.

My favorite part of the piece? While they're on this guy's ranch, they show a film of the "quarters" for women and their children and note that it looks exactly like a low-rent motel with no windows. Okay, I understand looking like a hotel with 22 wives and more than 100 kids, but where the fuck are the windows? Seriously. Where the fuck are the windows? I don't know why that that creeped me out more than anything, but it really, really did creep me out.

Anyway, I had to shut the thing off in the middle of the interview with the Bountiful guy because he was making me physically ill.





Edited at 2008-04-16 02:14 pm (UTC)
(Deleted comment)
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beadattitude
Apr. 16th, 2008 02:24 pm (UTC)
Oh hon. This just makes me so sick to my stomach. And you know what? I'm startin' to think that maybe the Christian church as run by menfolk? Have just fucked the whole thing up. I'm not so much with the believing anymore. The ideals, yeah, the love thy neighbor, yeah. The patriarchical stuffs and such, not so much. In fact, I'm just not sure I believe or want to believe anymore and I sure as hell can't talk to my family about it. I sho' don't feel like anybody's eye is on me, sparrow or not.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:34 pm (UTC)
I'm pretty much anti-religion because of the menfolk running the show. Well, that and I have no belief in divinity, BUT ANYWAY. Yes. Men. Controlling women through fear, teaching them to raise their babies in that fear... FUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOUUUUUUU.

one of the most freeing moments of my life was when I said out loud that I don't believe in a god of any kind. And didn't fear retribution. ...you know, smiting and shit. Hee! \o/
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dwivian
Apr. 16th, 2008 02:25 pm (UTC)
Devil's Advocate Point -- how do you reconcile that Religious Freedom *IS* a basic human right? How do you handle conflicts between the fundamental rights of a human? Can we legitimately decide that for those not in our care?
jennem
Apr. 16th, 2008 03:08 pm (UTC)
Because "your" right to religious freedom stops at the point where it begins to infringe and violate the fundamental rights of others.

In other words, you don't get to violate the rights of others in the name of your religion, and claim that its your "right" to do so.

Satanists have the fundamental right to practice their religion in this country. They can talk about the devil and worship the devil all they want. But their right to practice their religion doesn't encompass the ability to perform human sacrifices and murder people. Why? Because doing so violates that person's right to life.

If we aren't going to allow the Satanists to commit murder, we sure as shit are not going to allow the FLDS to commit child molestation and rape in the name of their religion.
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redbrickrose
Apr. 16th, 2008 02:37 pm (UTC)
This whole thing is so disgusting. It's so depressing that this shit still happens, but thanks for giving us the real story.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:41 pm (UTC)
I've waited for well over 15 years for something like this to happen. I am SO HAPPY it's all coming to light, but I'm very worried that public opinion could be swayed. Let's hope not!
sweetumms33
Apr. 16th, 2008 02:59 pm (UTC)
This is just getting a to a point of absurd. I do not agree with the universal notion that mother's know best. Because as you so aptly point out, in this case, they are just bat-shit crazy. I'm thinking of those kids, and how hard its going to be to adjust to the world outside the compound. The thing is, we know a family that's part of a Quaker community in PA and people think they are crazy. But from what I've seen, everyone's treated well, they just don't have electricity and video games. That's a decision to live in a different way within American law; this church is NOT.

Thank you for posting.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:43 pm (UTC)
Yeah, mother's DON'T know best. Case in point: Andrea "let's take a bath, kids!" Yates. I mean, good LORD.

You've got it exactly right: they're not like the Amish. Hell, the Amish allow for Rumspringa (sp?) where older teens get to live like everyone outside the group and decide if the Amish life is for them. Um... there is NOTHING like that with the FLDS, because that's "Evil" to them. What ever.

(Thank you for reading and keeping a sane head!)
southernbangel
Apr. 16th, 2008 03:42 pm (UTC)
This whole thing makes me sick. The horrors of your past Mormon posts have always been disturbing, to say the least, but to actually read and hear justifications for this behavior from the participants' mouths? GAH. I don't think there are words to describe how disgusted and sickened I am by this turn of events.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:43 pm (UTC)
I know. These women are soooooo reading from a script, though, so hopefully everyone is picking up on that and will keep a clear head about them.

Mighty hammer of justice, SMITE THEM!
wolfshark
Apr. 16th, 2008 04:18 pm (UTC)
I have no words.

On second thought, I have quite a few of them, but none of them are repeatable in public.

I will say this. A mother who cares that little for the welfare of their children? Isn't a mother in any sense but the biological. They've forfeited everything else.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:44 pm (UTC)
Hahahaha, you can say ALL THOSE WORDS (and more!) in this journal, should the need arise!

And ditto on the "you don't know motherhood from a hole in the ground." Jesus.
soberloki
Apr. 16th, 2008 04:39 pm (UTC)
You are awesome and sharp and I agree wholeheartedly with this post.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:45 pm (UTC)
What's awesome is you keeping up with all this and knowing the charlatans for who they are! And for your hilarious icon. :D
enigmaticblues
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:27 pm (UTC)
I just started reading Escape, and she has quite a bit to say about Jessop's daughters, none of it positive. *sigh* As soon as these women stopped protecting their children from abuse, they became perpetrators. And if Utah had gotten off its ass a long time ago, these people would have been stopped.
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 07:46 pm (UTC)
Yeah... his girls are not on the awesome list, for sure.

Utah WON'T get off it's ass because they're so busy trying to distance themselves from the polygamists (Mormons aren't plygs! We don't do that! What?) that they're like Norman Bates at the end of Psycho with the fly on his hand.

GAH.
(Deleted comment)
stoney321
Apr. 16th, 2008 08:26 pm (UTC)
Yeah, the recidivism rate is incredibly high among this group. A lot go back to "main line" Mormonism, then get dissatisfied with it and form their own little groups with polygamy back in the frame work. The problem is Joe Smith creating it in the first place. Bastard.
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Are You Actually

Reading this? I'm just curious. Because that's really detail-oriented of you. Feel free to stop reading. But you can see that there's more here, so are you going to keep reading? Really? That's pretty dedicated. I'm impressed. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic, why do you get like that? See, this is the problem I have with your mother - yes. YES. I'm going there. It's time we put all of our cards on the table.

I love you, why are you doing this? After all we've been through? You don't have to be like this. You know, still reading. You could be baking a pie. And then sharing it with me.

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