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First off, if people have to suck it up, if we have to learn that we've spent too much, that we can't have what we want, gird up our loins if you will (and you will), then why in the hell aren't the automakers having to do it, too?


That one dollar a year that the CEO of GM and Ford claim to want next year? Big damn deal. What would REALLY impress me is if they promised their freaking stock dividends, expense accounts, quarterly and yearly bonuses, and proceeds from stock sales to be invested back into the company with no chance of them touching it. Guess which is worth more?

If they get these billions of dollars, I personally want to see their budgets. I personally want to see them selling off expensive "decorative" items in their offices. Do all of the executives need desks that cost tens of thousands of dollars? Do all of the executives need MARBLE WALLS on their floors? (I don't know if anyone watched ABC News last night, but they showed these yahoos walking to their offices. Marble walls. Because lord knows I can't work without the frippery and finery of my station.

Did you know that because of unions (which, imo, are totally useless in the auto industry nowadays) there is a large percentage of the work force that DOES NOTHING? I'm talking, they show up, punch the clock, and get paid 90% of their salary to SIT. And do nothing. They are required to take a lunch and two fifteen minute breaks, too. Sounds like a cushy damn job! And there's some wasted money right there.

Have you ever seen an automobile assembly line? Those guys do shit. The Ford plant up in Detroit, we watched the line. You've got about 25 people in the door division. They all stand around, iPods in their ears bopping to the hits, and they each get to screw in four screws. (I'm over simplifying, one guy had to do five and flip a panel into place. You get my point) They had long spans in between each piece as it rolled down the line, too.

Seriously? This can't be done more efficiently? We really need all those people doing that one damn job? I'm not an advocate of people losing their jobs, mind, but this affects EVERYONE. 35 billion dollars, and that's just for GM!

I say they need to take their medicine. These yahoos need to lose their business. They put out too much product in a market where people don't WANT their product. Have you seen the Yukon or the Denali? Those SUVs are expensive as shit. You can get all the same things in a much cheaper car, which is what people did. And how many damn cars do we need? One executive for Chrysler laughingly said something to the effect of "Well, we need to insure people's jobs, and frankly, we need to get people to buy our product."

Why? Why do we need the auto industry to remain antiquated? They're not making cars more efficiently. They're not making cars more clean-energy viable. Why the hell do we need these guys to keep their paychecks? We'd be better served to let these guys go the way of the dodo and let something NEW come in. New ideas, new products, NEW JOBS.

I don't want my tax dollars, which should be going to things that help the ENTIRE country, to end up lining the pockets of a few elite assholes. And the thing is, I know I'm not alone in this. I hope that with Obama, we can get all of these old school political fat cats out of town. I'm so sick of a small group of people that have no interest in me, no interest in my values, no interest in bettering their own country running the show.

I swear to the god of your choice, I am going to be pissed if Congress gives them a dime. Suck it, like we're all sucking it. You should have made better, cheaper hybrids, jack asses. You should have quit sending your executives on big trips, let the unions force you into keeping every employee when it wasn't necessary, and you shouldn't have kept making cars when NO ONE CAN BUY NEW CARS RIGHT NOW. Suck it up, get your damn hands out of my pockets, and look into wind energy. if T. Boone Pickens can see a change coming, and he's an old school oil man, they sure as hell can, too.

Even Steve Jobs got shitty when his stockholders complained about all the extra money he gets with something called "Say on Pay." Hell, Apple PAYS HIM for him to use his jet for "business." He got snitty in a shareholders meeting that, "I hope Say on Pay will help me with my $1 a year salary." Fuck you, dude. Yeah, I'm crying a river over your one dollar paycheck, as if that's ALL the money he gets. Such self-righteous glad handing they all do with each other.

Down here in the real world where people look at their paychecks (knowing that's IT. There's no magic money coming from anywhere else.) and decide that they'll have to let some bills not be paid because they have to eat? Or decide on mortgage checks vs. medical care? I'm sure they'd love to have your actual salary. What a disconnect to reality these guys have.

Bah.

In happier news, I watched a (new to me) show called "The It Crowd" and laughed my butt off. I need to get my hands on all the eps, now. "When did the English start drinking like that? You drink like you don't want to live!" Hahahaha! Hilarious.

Yesterday I got a call from an old friend from high school that was back in town for the holidays. We had lunch and hung out all day and it was fantastic to remember being dorks on her trampoline in 8th grade. Good times!

Ugh, I need to do chores. I'll pay you a dollar salary to come take over? ;)

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Comments

( 44 comments — Leave a comment )
elisi
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:06 pm (UTC)
Just jumping in to cheer you on re. 'The IT Crowd'. We love it VERY MUCH! (Are you familiar with Father Ted and Black Books btw? If not, run, don't walk, to whoever supplies you with British sitcoms!)
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:18 pm (UTC)
I'm a HUGE fan of those shows! I read that the same writers from Father Ted are working on The It Crowd. No wonder I like it. :D
neried7
Dec. 3rd, 2008 07:23 pm (UTC)
IT Crowd is amazing. Graham Linehan is one of the writers from Father Ted, and is the writer and director of IT Crowd. The have the assembled seasons on bittorrent (there's only 6 eps/season).
thebratqueen
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:20 pm (UTC)
Personally I'd love to see something like "We'll help, but you're not allowed to make anything that isn't bare minimum a hybrid car. And so fucking HELP us if we see a Hummer."
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:31 pm (UTC)
I can get behind that plan, too. I say we draw up a list of requirements and if they don't follow through, THEY have to work on the lines for a solid year with no help of robotics. :)
viciouswishes
Dec. 3rd, 2008 06:10 pm (UTC)
I really agree that they should have a list of "big nos" if they're getting any money. No more Hummers. No more non-hybrids. No more cars that get less than 30 mpg. Etc. Etc.

I get so pissed every time I see a commercial where they're like "this SUV gets such high gas mileage at 20 mpg." My '83 Volvo gets more.
lavenderfrost
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:30 pm (UTC)
Mind if I link to and quote your bailout rant on my LJ? Because seriously - you've just expressed perfectly what's been running through my head this whole damned time, ever since the beginning with Fannie & Freddie.
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:32 pm (UTC)
Oh, knock yourself out!

I've been so up at arms over this, and then when the flipping auto industry came knocking... GAH!
lavenderfrost
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:38 pm (UTC)
Exactly. Where's MY bailout, bitch?

I'm having trouble keeping up my share of the rent on this tiny apartment - I share one cell phone and one car, and I buy groceries from Wal-Mart and the Dollar Store. I'm so anal about keeping the internet despite the cost because most of the time? That's my ONLY entertainment. I rarely go to movies, I can only stand a handful of TV shows, I don't eat out, I don't shop more than 1-2 times a year. Let's see these people live like that for a while.
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:40 pm (UTC)
YES.
a2zmom
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:35 pm (UTC)
Here's Aaron's take on the bailout (he reads car industry mags plus a lot of economic policy stuff, so I trust his judgment)

1. Chrysler is privately owned and the parent compant has deep pockets. They need money? The company that owns them can bail them out.

2. Ford doesn't need money at this point. It's actually solid.

3. GM has to be bailed out because otherwise they will pull down so many industrys it won't be funny. And Ford will go under also because their suppliers will be gone. You're looking at potentially 3 million people out of work.

4. The UAW union needs to start making concessions starting with a pay cut that puts them in line with Toyota. Currently, hourly wage is around 40 dollars / hour (with benes), needs to go down to around 30.

5. GM needs to divest itself of a lot of useless product. They make a lot of cars that no one wants. Stop making them.

6. Management needs to make big concessions regarding what they're being paid.

7. The government should immediately raise gas taxes by 50 cents this year, another 50 cents nex year and a final 50 cents the third year. This money should be used for R&D into alternative energy sources. Also this would discourage the purchasing of SUVs and car companies would start building more fuel efficient cars because the consumer would demand it.
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:44 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I have no clue why Ford is being brought in - they're actually turning a small profit now.

I know that GM will pull down it's GMAC financing, which employs a lot of people, but just as with other financial houses, they made BAD decisions. And truthfully, other companies will step in and pick up a good portion of these displaced workers. I'm right with you on them cutting from their production line a massive number of vehicles that are junk/unwanted.

I can totally get behind you on 7, except the gas tax needs to be imposed on the auto industry and the importers more than the consumer, imo.
spiralleds
Dec. 3rd, 2008 05:42 pm (UTC)
I think all that Ford is looking for is a line of credit that could be tapped if necessary. I think it's A) a combination of such a safety net providing the emotional reassurance skittish investors need as well as B) the fact that the car industry is apparently having a heck of a time getting credit from banks (even though that was half the purpose of the financial shot in the arm from the gov to banks). Without credit from banks, car companies can't provide credit to dealers who can then use it to get folks in cars at low or no interest for X amount of time loans.

Of course the whole issue of car companies/dealers being in the loan business is another road that in retrospect is a whole lot of questionable for companies to have gone down.
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 06:14 pm (UTC)
The leg the car companies are standing on is that they have their OWN banks, and that's one of the main reasons they require gov/t funding.

I get the banks needs, I do NOT agree with all of the banks plans, but now (imo) the car industry is just getting greedy. They need to prove they can streamline before they get any dollars, I feel.
a2zmom
Dec. 3rd, 2008 11:35 pm (UTC)
The reason you want to tax gas and put the issue onto the consumer is you want to "force" them to demand fuel efficient - alternative fuel cars. This is the only country where SUVs are marketed and sold. No one wants them anywhere else because gas is way too expensive.

tinpanalley
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:37 pm (UTC)

You took the words right out of my mouth. Although, your words were more eloquent. I'm so ready for change. January 20th, hurry up!
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 05:33 pm (UTC)
It's funny that you said I'm eloquent, as most of the time I feel like I'm vomiting up words like Paris Hilton at a party. :D
shiftyboyd
Dec. 3rd, 2008 06:13 pm (UTC)
there's a difference. you're not an idiot.
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 08:50 pm (UTC)
I'm buying you a pony made of out cake and sparkles.
shiftyboyd
Dec. 3rd, 2008 08:55 pm (UTC)
with a cherry on top?
xochitl42
Dec. 4th, 2008 07:06 am (UTC)
Pfft. Paris can't vomit words, let alone speak them. :P
chelethechicken
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:40 pm (UTC)
Businesses fail. No srsly.
I don't want people to lose their jobs either, but then again, I don't want people to get paid to do nothing even more than that. C'mon people, deal with the fact that life DOESN'T owe you a living and it's about time life took your living away to teach you what reality really is. As for shows, I've been recently sucked into The Big Bang Theory myself. Mainly because when I get the smart physics-related humor it makes me feel...well...smart.

YAY FOR SMART.
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 05:34 pm (UTC)
I've heard about that show, I've just not watched it. I'll have to catch up, it seems!

And ditto on the not kicking people to the curb, but JAYsus, Mary and Joseph.
chelethechicken
Dec. 4th, 2008 06:23 am (UTC)
Haha Big Bang Theory is like a show for geeks and nerds of all genres. It fills me with lolz. But I think that's just because my family is filled with insane geniuses.
vixielamenta
Dec. 3rd, 2008 04:56 pm (UTC)
IT Crowd is awesome!! :3
The first two seasons are killer too.
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 05:35 pm (UTC)
So funny! I'm hunting for all the eps, because clearly it's a show I should be watching. That and The Mighty Boosh.

(hahahaha, your icon! Oh my god, I laughed and laughed and laughed... The cars just kept coming!)
vixielamenta
Dec. 3rd, 2008 09:10 pm (UTC)
Made it myself. I couldn't put all the cars in so this way it looks like they keep coming. :3

The season 2 opener had me in TEARS. Best show in the world.
tabaqui
Dec. 3rd, 2008 05:33 pm (UTC)
Amen. Fuck the CEOs and their insane, cushy offices and bonuses and *everything*, and fuck them not being able to make more efficient *everything*.

The reason Toyota and Honda aren't screaming for money is because they have actual streamlined, working factories that put out cars people can actually *drive*. They're 'considering' ditching the Hummer line? Never should have offered them in the *first* fucking place.
*rants with you*

Arrrrrrrgh!
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 05:36 pm (UTC)
EXACTLY re: Toyota and Honda. Follow their model, stupid!

SO exasperating.
shiftyboyd
Dec. 3rd, 2008 06:12 pm (UTC)
"First off, if people have to suck it up, if we have to learn that we've spent too much, that we can't have what we want, gird up our loins if you will (and you will), then why in the hell aren't the automakers having to do it, too?"

you said it.
we didn't fuck up. THEY did. so why should we have to pay for it?
fucking washington.
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 08:53 pm (UTC)
AUGH! It's so aggravating.
ethrosdemon
Dec. 3rd, 2008 06:28 pm (UTC)
I think a lot of what's happening with the so-called bail outs is that economists have such philosophically disparate views on what caused the Depression (the big one that will be smaller than this one) and what elevated us out of it aside from the War. I think there was some thinking on the Bush et al side where they saw the new depression coming (not George, the people really running the show) and they thought their long-term strategy with colonizing the middle east would prevent the worst of the shock. I mean, how bad could a recession get when you have a whole new crop of slaves plus the central asian oil pipeline? No way in hell did they ever think McCain was going to lose. Therefore their super shitty financial policies have bitten us all in the ass years in advance of when they had estimated.

There's also the issue that even Obama's advisers are far too pro-business. Because he got socked with all the anti-business libel he's overcompensating now and that's going to fuck us if Congress doesn't say no to further bail outs, which is doubtful.

Oh well, time to buy a farm and start growing our own food.
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 08:56 pm (UTC)
Man, I am SO HAPPY that I know the Mormon Arts (canning, growing food, etc. Hahaha.)

If I hear "we're in the blah blah worst since the G.D." one more time I'm going to smack people. I hate that fear shit. 1) we don't have massive crop failures stretching from the Dakotas to Oklahoma, or record droughts in farming areas and 2) we didn't start off this downward spiral with an already high unemployment rate.

It's going to be tough, but some folks are going to lose their shirts (GM) and some people are going to tighten their belts and struggle for a bit. It can't always be wine and roses. I just hate this "We're all gonna starve and diiiie!" mindset that is ever-present on the 24 News cycles.
minstrel666
Dec. 5th, 2008 07:04 am (UTC)
There's so much in this post and the comments thread that I can get behind, that I have to limit myself to just this one reply. ;)

Amen on the fearmongering issue! We had it for a while here in Poland (especially when one German bank got the hiccups) and, well, mom put it best: "as long as there's no war, we should all be just fine".
undersea
Dec. 3rd, 2008 08:36 pm (UTC)
The IT Crowd is fabulous. I just had a season two marathon with my brother the other day. XD
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 08:57 pm (UTC)
I really enjoyed that one ep, I'm sure I'll like them all. :D
dovil
Dec. 3rd, 2008 09:17 pm (UTC)
My running theory is that Corporations realised that it was a ridiculous waste of time and energy being spent on lobbying government when instead they could circumnavigate all that and just become government. It's throwing money at specific candidates that are going to further your own cause and pushing your own people up the political ladder. Look at the number of high profile politicians that have gone on to big cushy corporate numbers and vice versa.

This isn't government giving to big business, this is big business giving to big business. They're so much in each others pockets they might as well have a joint bank account.

VOTE LEFT! Hahahaha!

Edited at 2008-12-03 09:19 pm (UTC)
stoney321
Dec. 3rd, 2008 10:17 pm (UTC)
DING DING DING we have a winner! I'm cracking open a bottle of wine at 4:16pm, my time. It's happy hour somewhere, yes? at least in New York it's gearing up...
dovil
Dec. 3rd, 2008 10:26 pm (UTC)
It's all a conspiracy! Heh! It's just a bunch of (mostly) blokes sitting around in over stuffed suits slapping each others backs and slipping each other money on the sly. Greed is good because that way you WIN and then people look up to you and you get to pick up an ex-model for your wife and your genes are passed on meaning the surivial of the 'fittest' and planet death. We're all dooooooomed, hahahahaha! I just like doing that so I can stagger about the office pulling down files before collapsing into a heap.

at least in New York it's gearing up...

Lets be there now! *concentrates really hard*
setdragonfriend
Dec. 3rd, 2008 11:00 pm (UTC)
Who's next? The airline companies? Hollywood? Microsoft? Anyone else? Mexico, maybe? Treasury's open for business.

Where do we draw the line?

Besides, cars are almost completely built by robots anyway. Don't see them complaining about not having enough money to feed the kids.

Solid-gold parachutes to be handed out to whoever grovels the most. And you can bet this has everything to do with the fact that we're about to experience a regime change in America. Just like the plummet in gas prices post-election. No mystery there.
dampersnspoons
Dec. 3rd, 2008 11:26 pm (UTC)
I just wanted to point out that you said "yahoos" twice and "fat cats".

And then I wanted to say that I think I might apply for a job at GM.

Meanwhile, Dillard's and JcPenny's are closing hundreds of stores, so is Cost Plus, Pier 1, CompUSA, Circuit City, Mother's Cookies went completely under (no more animal crackers covered in sprinkled frosting), Eddie Bauer, The Gap, and a crap load of other businesses either filing chapter 11 or closing half their stores.

Meanwhile, the government spends 1.5 million dollars on a retirement party for a senator. Hope they liked their party favors of GOLD.
(Deleted comment)
pernickety
Dec. 4th, 2008 12:31 am (UTC)
The IT Crowd is awesome. That episode was my favourite ever!

If you like that, I think Darkplace may be for you as well. I love that show so much. Only wish there were more episodes of it. :D
dwivian
Dec. 4th, 2008 06:00 am (UTC)
If they go Chapt-11, they can redo the contracts with the union. I don't see the UAW budging on this one, otherwise. And, since personel is a much bigger cost than the executives, fixing that one thing will do wonders. You saw all those people on the line? Did you know the UAW protected the jobs of people that were put out of work by plant closures, so there are UAW workers not working at all, but getting a paycheck? WTF?
( 44 comments — Leave a comment )

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Are You Actually

Reading this? I'm just curious. Because that's really detail-oriented of you. Feel free to stop reading. But you can see that there's more here, so are you going to keep reading? Really? That's pretty dedicated. I'm impressed. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic, why do you get like that? See, this is the problem I have with your mother - yes. YES. I'm going there. It's time we put all of our cards on the table.

I love you, why are you doing this? After all we've been through? You don't have to be like this. You know, still reading. You could be baking a pie. And then sharing it with me.

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