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Just.... own up. Okay?

I am at the point in Angel Season 4 where Cordy reveals her pregnant belly.

When my kids are bad (I mean, BAD. Like, pooping in their room for the convenience, hiding the nasty trash in the hamper and everyone walking around with that FACE wondering what in god's name climbed out of the dead skunk's ass, slid through the abbattoir, ate old cheese, then sat out in the sun BAD) I tell them that I will still love them, but I need them to just be honest.

Jasmine is a cool idea, but they frakkin forced it too quickly without making anyone believe it. Cordy with the "give mama some sugar" and birthing evil, causing death, but it's for the good?

Confidential to ME: you wrote a bad season, and you won't admit it. We promise we will love you more if you JUST COME CLEAN.


( 47 comments — Leave a comment )
Nov. 16th, 2004 09:46 pm (UTC)
Man, your kids can be BAD, can't they? There is no love like a mother's.

And yes, season 4 was... so much potential, not enough brains.

They should've hired fic writers./lame fantasy
Nov. 16th, 2004 09:51 pm (UTC)
Your icon is pitying me. Make it stop.
That? *points to post* Is the boy. The boy who made his mommy cry on Sunday. The day of the LORD. The Lord I no longer believe in. And I TOLD HIM SO. Ha ha ha!! Sad thing? Fucking true story. Ask Sue if you don't believe me. I may have called her crying about the goddawfulness of children or something. Poopin' in a bag is so much EASIER than walking five steps to the bathroom.

If only "Oops! I crapped myself!" was a real product... I had a sketch all written out for adult diapers for really lazy people, and then SNL goes and Josses me.

Season 4 is like my son pooping in a bag. Just easier somehow. In BIZARRO LAND.
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:00 pm (UTC)
Re: Your icon is pitying me. Make it stop.
For you and only you, I have changed my default icon (for now)

In a bag?!? Well, at least he used a bag, I guess.

S4 is crap in a bag.

See, before season 5 I would have given them the benefit of the doubt. They scrambled for a Big Bad and a storyline to work around Charisma's pregnancy. It sorta worked and the writers could have claimed "Hey we did the best we could. Love us."

But then came along S5, in which tendrils of story lines were spread out the entire first half of the season and then BOOM the news dropped. Cancellation. Yet, they tied up a season and a series and it was fucking genius, man.

There was no excuse for some of the stuff in S4. Like poop in a bag. No excuse.
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:34 pm (UTC)
That icon? Wants to do me. Which is acceptable.
Man, tomorrow I am scanning a bread wrapper and making a new "crappy icon." Ha ha ha ha! Heh. "Like crap in a bag!" In fancy script. It will be the finest of my icons...

"At least he used a bag." Every friend of mine without kids says the same thing. THE BOY CRAPPED AND PISSED INTO A BREAD WRAPPER.

My stomach hurts from laughing. At my life.
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:06 pm (UTC)
I would just like you to know that you've created a new stock phrase for me. "Like poop in a bag." Genius.
And yeah...the less said about late-s4, the better. I always boggle when I see reviewers/fans casually stating "s4 was by far AtS' best season." Um....WHY? The character assassination and the creepiness?
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:35 pm (UTC)
Hopefully I will be able to make my greatest icon ever.

"Angel Season 4: Like crap in a bag!" Check back tomorrow...
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:09 pm (UTC)
I find it amazing that they can say, with a straight face, "this was our best season." WTF? On International Say the Opposite of What You Mean Day perhaps...

The whole evil!cordy thing just never flew for me. I just couldn't believe it. ME was definately pooing in the corner of convenience...
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:36 pm (UTC)
It has potential. Like my crack whore mother has "potential"

*sobs* Ha ha ha! I am obviously feeling a bit on the weird side tonight, which is saying a LOT for me. Vinnie started it.
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:38 pm (UTC)
Me? It's your entry, you started it!
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:41 pm (UTC)
shut up. loser.


I am jacked up tonight, yo. Bes step correct 'roun here. I need sleep and no children. *fumbles with pulleys and a green curtain*

Pay no attention to the woman behind that curtain!!
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:44 pm (UTC)
One of the many reason I love you:
Pay no attention to the woman behind that curtain!!

I say that at least 6 times a week, no joke, mind erasing hand wave included.

Go to bed. When you wake up you can send the kids to school and the rest is puddin'. Could be worse, could be summer.
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:43 pm (UTC)
lol...potential. Like that bag-o-poop could become...fertilizer... *g*

Weird mood is a-ok. I just got lost in London Drugs again, so you're one up on me...
Nov. 17th, 2004 06:56 am (UTC)
just made the icon.

Not feeling so crazy today: it's DVD shopping day!! Woot!
Nov. 17th, 2004 09:04 am (UTC)
That icon rules! See, potential *g*

Ooh...buying DVDs...have fun!
Nov. 16th, 2004 10:51 pm (UTC)
The bread wrapper icon needs to be made.

You know, I'm pretty sure pooping in a bread wrapper is one of the signs of demonic possession. It's a good thing I don't have kids, isn't it? I'd be huddled in a corner holding a crucifix up defensively all the time. "Mom, can you make me a sandwich?" "No, spawn of Satan! Make your own damn sandwich!".

I can take Jasmine, in season 4. The frikken Beast is a big pile of stupid, though. As was Cordy's "phear the black fringe and tassels of bare pregnant belly of evul"!dress.

Nov. 17th, 2004 06:58 am (UTC)
I keep a vial of holy water around just in case. Boys. Man I am from a family of all girls, and I just look at my son like he's an alien. Crapping in bags? For convenience?? That is the same level of "let's put some black velvet and fringe on her, trot her out, and say we knew what we were doing all along!"

*points to new icon*
Nov. 17th, 2004 04:07 pm (UTC)
Whoohoo! Your icon rawks!

The little green smelly lines add just the right touch.
Nov. 16th, 2004 11:12 pm (UTC)
I was on board up until the Connor/Cordy hook up.
It was too ooky.
And those bastards killed Cordy.
She died in season 4, trust me.
Cordy never would have walked down in that black velvet monstrosity...anyone else hear Alannah Myles?

"Now give mama some sugar..."
Cordy didn't even want to be seen with Xander.
Why would she be sucking face with a hell-beast?! C'mon.
Yes, season 4 was Crapapalooza.
Nov. 17th, 2004 07:00 am (UTC)
I liked the season (including the hook-up, although SQUICK FACTOR HIGH) until the Beast. It had massive operatic overtones (which I like), but the Beast shit ruined the season. Faith busting out was good, the sneak kiss by Wes (Fred) was good... Give mama some sugar.
Nov. 16th, 2004 11:19 pm (UTC)
long "Angel"y ramble
on one of the lists that I'm on, someone was doing a thing of making "names" for the Angel seasons, which were very descriptive and thoughtful. And my less-descriptive-and-thoughtful rejoiner was something like:

season 1: The season of getting a spinoff and trying to figure out what kind of show it's supposed to be.
season 2: The season of Angel getting mad a lot.
season 3: The season of -WTF??
season 4: The season of -no, seriously, WTF??
season 5: The season where Angel & Spike obviously want to fuck each other so why don't they just get it over with, already?

I've heard Joss say that S3 is his favorite season, which really makes me question the quality of crack he is smoking. But my theory giving-Joss-the-benefit-of-the-doubt is that he was spread a little thin that year (obsessed with a little some'in some'in called "Once More with Feeling" perhaps?) And so he had a lot to do with the overall arcs (which are really quite glorious) and considerably less with the day-to-day execution. Maybe somewhat season 4 too -- which would have been when he was doing Firefly right?

So I think that when Joss talks about those seasons, he's thinking about the versions that are floating around in his head, and not so much what actually ended up on screen. And anybody who was involved in the day to day of those two seasons is gonna say they liked them more because that's what they worked on!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I prefer season 3 in concept, but season 4 has an edge for me in execution -- it's not much of one, but if the seaon 4 stories are dopier, there's generally more going on that I want to look at. Though admittedly not much of it happens after Lilah dies and Faith leaves.

One word about both these seasons? (And this will come as a big shock): WESLEY. That is my word for those seasons. I think I may have sent you a family portrait that includes my baby brother. My baby brother has this magical power wherein he ALWAYS photographs well. The entire rest of the picture can be out of focus, and he will photograph well. In fact, the worse the rest of the picture looks, the better he looks. That's my metaphor for Wesley in seasons 3 & 4. Not quite as poetic as "bag of poop" but. . . then in season 5, he finally gets material that's worthy of him, and a costar with real acting chops (who he virtually never gets to play against because then everybody would notice that they don't actually need Angel around) -- but stil!
Nov. 16th, 2004 11:30 pm (UTC)
Re: long "Angel"y ramble
I gotta say, I actually love season 3...until the very end when Cordy rose in a pillar of light. That sucked. But really I thought that season 3 was awesome, even if occasionally they got too caught up with Holtz.

Season 4 just pissed me off because aside from Weslah I can't like it. The Beast actually makes no sense. No. Sense. Why did Cordy bring him forth? Why did she bring Angelus forth? So she could sleep with Connor? He's 17! And horny! He don't need no fire from the sky. Plus, if Jasmine wanted minions, why would she kill them all first? It makes no sense. At all. Too many gaping plot holes.

Season 4 just took itself too seriously. What I can't forgive was the loss of dorky!Angel. Even when he went dark in S2, he was still a total dork. In S4 he was justa big brooder. Nary a dork to be seen. I need my dorky Angel!

Nov. 17th, 2004 09:59 am (UTC)
Re: long "Angel"y ramble
this is funny because, besides WESLEY, the only thing I really like about S3 is Holtz. I want more Holtz! Less Groosalugg!

not making sense is really not a problem for me w/i the Buffyverse. The more inconsistent the plots are the funnier I think it is. I mean, nothing that happened in AtS 5 was explained any better than the Jasmine thing, but it worked with the characters; s4 MOSTLY worked with the characters; s3 the stories worked OK, but the character interactions just didn't. It's like they went to a seminar in the offseason and learned about how you're supposed to have Sexual Tension in a primetime series. Another reason I prefer BtVS is that all of the 'ships on that show seemed completely organic -- they grew out of the characters. Here you could just see the Angel-Cordy URST meter on one hand and the F/G/W triangle on the other. Meanwhile Darla gives herself to save her son etc AND NOBODY EVER MENTIONS HER AGAIN!!! Hate that.

and seriously, how much would I like to be the guy who walked into a story conference meeting and said, "so I think Wes should start sleeping with Lilah." Now that's a GOOD idea.
Nov. 17th, 2004 10:12 am (UTC)
Re: long "Angel"y ramble
Groo, while not my fave was almost necessary as the only character with no hidden agenda.

I get the no mentioning Darla thing: Angel is a brooder. He doen't share his feelings, so he's not likely to mention her. Cordy, at that point, was always thinking about what Angel wanted (which was where the character betrayall began, because before she was all about what he needed, not wanted). Of course, Cordy's not exactly cpatain of the Darla cheer squad, so she proabaly still harbors a bit of resentment. Wes is spiralling inwards because of the prophecy and Fred and Gunn are taken up with each other, and wouldn't know what to say anyway. So the only character who would ahve said something is Lorne, but as he was always spectacularly underused...

The thing that made me saddest was the loss of the Wes/Gunn friendship. I some eps Gunn is just so over the top assholish that I can't believe it. And that's mostly in season 4.

I just found that while often times motives are not clear, there is at least the believability that the person in question would do what they were doing. For example, in season 5, although Lindsey's motives are not clear I can believe that he would do what he was doing. In season 4, not only are Cordy's motives not clear, but there are many reasons why she wouldn't do what she was doing, the most important of which is that if Jasmine wants minions to love her, it makes no sense to kill them all first. That is my major problem with season 4. Plot holes you could sink the Titanic into.
Nov. 17th, 2004 10:18 am (UTC)
Re: long "Angel"y ramble
but it's not like they're even THINKING about Darla, that's my problem; Angel is just so unambiguously lovey-dovey about Connor, there's barely a moment where you'd think that seeing his son reminds him of the dead mother at all. I so loved Angel/Darla in S2 and I felt like they really screwed it up.
Nov. 17th, 2004 10:21 am (UTC)
Re: long "Angel"y ramble
Yeah, he doesn't really seem to be thinking of Darla, does he? I can see why that'd be annoying. They were great in season 2, the season that put the final nail in the coffin of Bangel *g* Want chemestry? Dargel.
Nov. 17th, 2004 07:00 am (UTC)
Re: long "Angel"y ramble
DITTO!! I heart Wesley in season 3 and 4, and I bet that is what Joss is thinking of when he claims it's his finest. Because all of the Wesley stuff is fantastic. Duh.
Nov. 17th, 2004 09:14 am (UTC)
Re: long "Angel"y ramble
Ok, adding somehting else...Angelus. Was anyone else severly dissappointed with the lame-ass version we got? He didn't kill ANYONE! Scratch that, the Beast, but other then that? NO ONE! It was so frustrating watching Angelus act like some big-mouthed frat boy, tossing back brewskies and talking big with out ever KILLING ANYONE! Not very scourgey of the scourge of Europe. So that is why I agree with him being dubbed Lamegelus. And he was. Lame. In the cage? Awesome. Out of the cage when he could actually DO something? Lame, lame, lame. Were they worried we'd lose sympathy for him if he killed someone? Cause he's killed a lot of people and that makes him badass and that's why I love to watch his show. So :p to Lamegelus.
Nov. 16th, 2004 11:25 pm (UTC)
PS- the Beast!
not only is the Beast plot stupid, the Beast isn't even scary. seriously, it's not even that much taller than Gunn. I mean, man -when Buffy went up against those evil things that kept kicking her ass? Clare Kramer and Nathan Fillion in a creepy dog collar. They're scary because they don't look like they should be so scary.

Now I'm going to segue into a rant about how "Buffy" is really so much better of a show -- which I lose sight of when I'm watching a lot of "Angel" and just obsessing over the Wesley bits. Because not watching most of the crap they inflicted on Cordy in Seasons 3 & 4 is what fast forward on the DVD is for.
Nov. 17th, 2004 11:01 am (UTC)
Re: PS- the Beast!
Them's fightin words!


S4 is really, just not very good. When I went crazy and ranked all the Angel episodes, in order, S4 had only 2 top 25 episodes and was the lowest season of all, by far.

It's not that Angel is a better show, not really but Angel is more my sort of show. It works for me better than Buffy. That is all.
Nov. 17th, 2004 11:42 am (UTC)
Re: PS- the Beast!
yeaIt's not that Angel is a better show, not really but Angel is more my sort of show. It works for me better than Buffy. That is all.

yeah, Smash, you and I have been through this. :) I really should have said the same -- "Buffy" overall builds its stories around things that I just fundamentally care more about, so even when the stories are kinda lame, I can go with it. Whereas on Angel, stories get lame and I stop caring very much. That said, your take on "Angel" over time has helped me get it a lot more, so I always appreciate the perspective. Have I mentioned that I always feel the urge to quote "The Four Quartets" in Angel-fic? wonder where I picked that up :)

shall cease hijacking stoney's journal now. . .
Nov. 17th, 2004 04:16 pm (UTC)
Re: PS- the Beast!
I couldn't remember if we'd actually had the conversation or just danced around it.

Have I mentioned that I always feel the urge to quote "The Four Quartets" in Angel-fic? wonder where I picked that up :)

my work here is done. (-:
Nov. 17th, 2004 12:09 am (UTC)
Aww, hun. Sounds like you've had a bad time of it.

You're not gonna make yourself feel better by watching season 4. I agree, the ideas were good, but I just didn't like it. Guilty secret here - I stopped watching after Players, and missed out the whole Jasmine thing. I only started watching again when season 5 started. And yes, I'll admit it, I'm shallow enough that the only reason was because JM was in it.

Season 4 seemed to contradict itself - a huge story arc that swung from here to there, as though the writers thought of an idea then changed their minds halfway through.

I know that they used the title of Yeats' poem "Slouching towards Bethlehem" to give an indication of what was coming up, but there's a couple of parts of it that I think sum up the season perfectly.

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

BTW, Poop in a bag? Almost as catchy as soap on a rope.
I really feel for you, and he's so lucky that you haven't disowned him.
Nov. 17th, 2004 07:02 am (UTC)
I booked a hotel room for the weekend (two weeks away) for JUST ME. I will have no children anywhere.

This, too, shall pass. And I wish I could share your guilty secret. My eyes!!! Wait: the Darla/Connor exchange was pretty powerful, and satisfied a lot in me, so ah, well. You take the good, you take the bad...

/Blair Warner
Nov. 17th, 2004 05:55 pm (UTC)
I love your icon, but I'm a little worried about the products your local store seems to be stocking.

I hope you have a wonderful, pampered time at the hotel. Feeling very jealous actually.
Nov. 17th, 2004 06:24 am (UTC)
I think season 4 could definitely taken a better turn. I think someone else said it here, but the rumor was that Charisma kept here pregnancy a secret until she was about 4-5 months along. No one even knew so of course, working in a suddenly round tummy I guess could have been very hard to deal with. I think most people jumped on the eeewwww bandwagon with the Cordy/Conner scene. I don't think anything like that would have happened IMHO.

So yeah, they screwed it up. Oh, well. Such is life I guess. *sighs*
Nov. 17th, 2004 07:04 am (UTC)
I agree that the RL pregnancy screwed shit up. Funny how I've heard the writers (and Joss) say they had all of that planned, but had to speed it up Yeeaaaaahhh. Right.

Can I say how much your icon is making me laugh? EVERYTIME I SEE IT?? It's the little things in life that please me.
Nov. 17th, 2004 07:06 am (UTC)
I'm one of the few whore who should be bludgeoned that actually has no problems with the Jasmine arc or season four, really.

I wonder, though, if this has anything to do with the fact that I didn't see it when it aired. I've only seen it on DVD (save for the Faith eps, where I fast forwarded through everything but Eliza) in a compacted amount of time.

-Season four has the best action sequences of all five seasons.
-Dark!Wes is the keeper of my heart.
-"Step away from the glass" is likely the MOST orgasmic moment of the entire run of both shows.

When it comes to sloppy writing, I'm very forgiving if there's payoff in the end. And I felt that there truly was.

HOWEVER, I will agree that the entire plot of Cordy's pregnancy feels off. Likely because it was written around Charisma and wasn't planned from the beginning.

Shit happens. Sometimes, it happens in a bag.
Nov. 17th, 2004 07:11 am (UTC)
I mentioned several things that I love about this season, and you have three of them in your post. "Step away from the glass." Fucking. Rocks. Faith is another one of my all-time fave characters EVER. I would watch that spin-off.

ANd the Darla/Connor ep is fantastic and very satisfying. Scruffy Wes is worshipped in these parts, and Fred figuring out Jasmine is FANTASTIC. however: I think this should have have a few more episodes to make the Jasmine Arc work, and I never got the motives of Jas/Cordy. They tried to keep it ambiguous for too long, and so the final payoff seemed fake. But.. she's evil, right? And why the killing of lots of people and frenching of stone demons? And Angelus?

Best line from the entire season? "Oh, um, I'm seeing someone." Willow!! Fred!! I could jump aboard that ship.

Shit happens. Sometimes, it happens in a bag Phwar!!!
Nov. 17th, 2004 07:17 am (UTC)
They brought in Angelus because I paid someone five dollars to do it. I think he's sexay when he's evil. So, when Faith and Angelus are kickin' it (or each other's faces), it's the porno equivalent of the latest Britney video to me.
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 17th, 2004 09:02 am (UTC)
(shh: i kinda like angel more than buffy at times. shhh!! it's because of wesley. i love him so hard.)
Nov. 17th, 2004 08:54 am (UTC)
Just came back to squee at the icon.
Nov. 17th, 2004 09:01 am (UTC)
i live a sad life. but yet? i sit here and laugh. no caps because evil black kitty is lying on the shift key.
Nov. 17th, 2004 08:54 am (UTC)
1) My favourite season of AtS was season four.
2) My favourite season of BtVS was season six.
3) I prefer AtS to BtVS
4) I'm going to run away now

Nov. 17th, 2004 09:00 am (UTC)
"Oh Jasmine..."
1) I love the operatic themes (but then, I've been listening to Oedipus Rex, so that may explain a LOT
2) Wesley is at his best/worst here, love it
3) Faith busts through bullet proof glass
4) Othello overtones with G/F/W
5) poor, sad Connor (who inspired fic from me)
6) bullet time, Jasmine blood, Fred hiding

I love ALL of those things. That being said, where the hell have you been? :-) I know, I know. But ultimately this season just didn't work. It's like the dangled the carrot, and when I finally took a bite, it was tofu. Or I thought I was getting yummy 7 grain bread but opened the bag to find an 8 year old's poo and wee.
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 17th, 2004 11:05 am (UTC)
but Connor was ABUSED and LIED to!! he can't help but hate his dad some... I can always forgive him a little for that bit of his history.

(I do the same thing when Mr. Stoney is gone)
( 47 comments — Leave a comment )


Are You Actually

Reading this? I'm just curious. Because that's really detail-oriented of you. Feel free to stop reading. But you can see that there's more here, so are you going to keep reading? Really? That's pretty dedicated. I'm impressed. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic, why do you get like that? See, this is the problem I have with your mother - yes. YES. I'm going there. It's time we put all of our cards on the table.

I love you, why are you doing this? After all we've been through? You don't have to be like this. You know, still reading. You could be baking a pie. And then sharing it with me.

Time Wot It Is

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