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It'll make sense in a minute. So, in doing rewrites, I'm punching up a little section about how Mormons aren't really Christians and why (because of how they view Christ as their literal brother and how any good Mormon can become a god, God was once a Mormon guy on another planet, etc. etc.) and remembered a story of when I learned in church how Jesus... came about. Ahem. Poll time!

Poll #1614124 How Jesus was "made:" Eh or Bat-scheisse Crazy?

On a scale of 1 being "eh, not so much" to 10 as "WAIT, WHAT? NO, WHAT?! ....WHAT?" rate the concept that LDS teaches that God showed up and had physical sex with Mary - like, climbed on her, thrust, orgasmed, magical God-sperm to Mary-egg happenings.

Mean: 8.57 Median: 10 Std. Dev 2.62
1
13(7.5%)
2
1(0.6%)
3
2(1.1%)
4
1(0.6%)
5
5(2.9%)
6
2(1.1%)
7
5(2.9%)
8
18(10.3%)
9
19(10.9%)
10
108(62.1%)

Stoney, you just:

blew my mind.
72(26.0%)
made me blow chunks.
42(15.2%)
offended me greatly, how dare you?
6(2.2%)
keep pulling me back in.
58(20.9%)
can't startle me like that.
48(17.3%)
told me something I believe in deeply.
2(0.7%)
told me something I've known for years.
17(6.1%)
get your ass back in your kitchen and get some lunch.
32(11.6%)


So! This'll be fun to find out about. I remember it being VERY WEIRD that this old man was telling us all this story on the traditional "Christmas story" day of church. I was freaked out. Then he started crying, and honestly, that freaked me out more, how "beautiful" it was that this virgin was consummating her love of her god in such a way.

HOW ABOUT GOD JUST CRACKS HIS HEAD OPEN LIKE ZEUS DID THAT ONE TIME? A lot less trouble, imo. Boy Kitteh (Smudge) is perched on my shoulder awaiting your reply.

[ETA] Oh, and as always, please feel free to comment with why you voted the way you did, etc. etc. Discussion is the word of the day today!

Comments

( 160 comments — Leave a comment )
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flake_sake
Sep. 2nd, 2010 04:56 pm (UTC)
I don't know, considering in the christian version he magically force insaminated her, the concept of him actually physically raping her doesn't seem like such a stretch.
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 04:58 pm (UTC)
I think that the general consensus of how the insemination "happened" in the Christian world is just a magical handwave. Which, still, I agree with you that it's a crappy thing to do to someone engaged to another man. But that's never seemed to bug anyone in charge of Christianity. (Which is a whoooooooole 'nother kettle of worms.)

Thanks for participating!
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ladycyndra
Sep. 2nd, 2010 04:58 pm (UTC)
Blew my mind! Because I had no idea that's what they believe. o_o Learn something new everyday!
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:01 pm (UTC)
Yeah. I grew up thinking that was how it was. BIG SHOCK when I mentioned that in a friend's church once. Uh....
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kita0610
Sep. 2nd, 2010 04:58 pm (UTC)
Uhm.

o0

What?
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:02 pm (UTC)
In repsonse to above, too: No, Mary and Joseph were engaged. Mary got knocked up by God, which caused a scandal, which made people think Joseph was "such a good dude" for sticking by her side, and GOOD HELL.

Yeah, no matter how you look at it, Mary gets the raw end of the deal.
brutti_ma_buoni
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:08 pm (UTC)
Just to clarify my non-insanity in responses. Not a Christian, not a believer. I don't believe in the incarnation or the divinity of Christ, so some guy (call him God if you will) actually having sex and making said baby? Makes more sense than the alternative.

It's pretty crappy as a religious position, though, tbh.

There are some very funny medieval plays (well, at least one, I think it's part of the York mystery cycle) which have Joseph finding out Mary's pregnant and being distinctly disbelieving at the whole 'son of god, miraculous child, virgin birth' thing. Which doesn't mean they were not believers, but at least allows space for the buzzuh moment...
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:09 pm (UTC)
Yeah, Mary gets the shaft no matter how you tweak the tale, right? Um, literally in the LDS sense. :)
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captainofidiots
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:10 pm (UTC)
One of my best friends was raised Mormon, so I'd get to hear lots of wonderful stories. It doesn't get any less creepy, though.
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:12 pm (UTC)
I think the creepiest part was this old man weeping about the beauty of God and this virgin teenager. O_O
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entrenous88
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:12 pm (UTC)
Ew. Ew because I'm guessing it gets used as justification for all those teen and child bride things, like the perpetrators insisting, "I'm following in God's ways! Literally!"

Ew. And wow. The whole godlike complex that's possible for men in that faith. Yikes.

And the whole thing about Christ visiting the Native Americans, that I swear I saw in some film when I was four (I wish the hell could remember where, or why) is Mormon doctrine too, right?
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:13 pm (UTC)
UH HUH. Ding ding ding ding! Give Entrenous a prize for being the most intuitive here.

Godlike complex - when they think they literally will BE gods, does it get called something beyond a complex?

That is! And you probably watched The Godmakers. Was it animated? (It's on YouTube.)
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soundingsea
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:14 pm (UTC)
Um... ew. I mean, the Holy Ghost flying his bird self around her and poof! Virgin is preggers... bad enough. But.. so.. do they not have the doctrine of the Virgin Birth, then?
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:18 pm (UTC)
OH. And the argument the LDS church has against it having been the Holy Ghost is that once you are baptized, you get the "holy ghost" within, which would result in you becoming pregnant.

...WOW.

And yes, she's still a Virgin because God Peen doesn't split the hymen and taint the area. WHAT.
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stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:17 pm (UTC)
LOL the word "startle" always has me flashing back to South Park. :D

LUNCH! I think I'll make a grilled roast beef and provolone sammich. Or some pad thai noodles. FOOOOOD.

I WAS INTERESTED IN SAMMICHES ALWAYS. Describe the components of this miracle of foodstuffs, yea verily!
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evamagick
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:15 pm (UTC)
WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

Now, Mormonism has brought me some weird shit, but this is like pagan belief weird shit! I'M pagan and I don't even buy this crap! Whaaaaaaaat?! Grown up people who know how to dress themselves and go to the bathroom like civilized humans believe this?! HOW?
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:19 pm (UTC)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. Omg, your comment is making me lol because I KNOW, RIGHT!?
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_tallian_
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:21 pm (UTC)
So ... Mary wasn't a virgin, then? I mean, PIV = not virgin, right?

OH WAIT MIRACLE NEVERMIND.
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:24 pm (UTC)
YEAH. I've addressed it more fully in a few other comments, but yeah - God means no hymen busted, or some weird, poorly thought-out scenario.
menomegirl
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:21 pm (UTC)
I've always thought the whole virgin birth thing was just part of a fictional book written by men a long time ago and not much different than a book of fairy tales. Because really. She turned up with child before she was married but hey, it was all okay with everyone because an " angel " came along and told her it was " God " that did it. And people bought that? I wonder how many bridges they sold that day.

On the other hand, the tiny part of me that's still Catholic despite the gross lapse on my part, read this: LDS teaches that God showed up and had physical sex with Mary - like, climbed on her, thrust, orgasmed, magical God-sperm to Mary-egg happenings. and freaked right the fuck out.

They actually teach that?

Dude. That's fucked up.

stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:26 pm (UTC)
It could totally be turned around to be a story mary concocted to save face, right? But the men took over the story and made it what it is now.

AND YEAH - YOUR CATHOLIC RESPONSE IS THE RIGHT ONE, REGARDLESS. Yep, that's taught. But in less "aww, yeah, baby! *toe suck*" language. It's all Victorian and flowery and shit.
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flaming_muse
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:30 pm (UTC)
OMG HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS?

I bet there'd be a heck of a lot more Evangelical Mormon-bashing if these stories were more widely circulated.
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:40 pm (UTC)
Guess what a big part of my book is? ;)
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serenemiss
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:35 pm (UTC)
I dunno, this doesn't surprise me like crazy, because Mormonism is whack.

I like the Zeus/Athena shoutout. :)
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:41 pm (UTC)
I have a lot of Christians/former Christians on my flist that I thought would be shocked by this - most people don't know what Mormons REALLY believe.

Hahaha, THANK YOU.
mecurtin
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:46 pm (UTC)
When I agree with a Southern Baptist bigwig, it should be big news: Richard Land says Mormonism is the fourth Abrahamic faith. I think that's pretty accurate: theologically, Mormonism is a good bit further from the rest of Christianity than Islam is from Judaism.

Do Mormons realize that they're not monotheists by the standards of other Christians? Much less by the standards of Jews and Muslims, who don't consider most Christians to be monotheists -- that Trinity business is right out.
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:58 pm (UTC)
Oh, it's absolutely not a Christian faith, as the term is understood by the multitudes. And they have NO CLUE.

They believe they're along the line of Protestants, but more pure since they didn't break off from the Catholic Church, but skipped from the time of the Apostles to the time of Joseph Smith. ....no, really.
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gehayi
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:51 pm (UTC)
So, basically, the Mormon God is no different than horny ol' Zeus physically impregnating various virgins and siring gods and demigods.

Gee, and here I thought that the Judeo-Christian God was supposed to be different from pagan ones.

I also recall being taught that Mary had to choose to agree to bear the Savior. I remember a legend I heard (and later read) that said that Mary was NOT the first one that the angel came to. But she was the first to say yes.
stoney321
Sep. 2nd, 2010 05:58 pm (UTC)
Yep! But they don't see it that way at all.

There's a thread up top discussing this very thing about Mary choosing, etc.
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( 160 comments — Leave a comment )

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