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I'm taking a break from landscaping today to mention a funny and ask an opinion of you.

1, Emily wore her bathing suit under her school clothes yesterday so when she got home she could get straight into the pool. o_0. I mentioned that we need to wear proper underwear to school from now on. Also, LOL.

2. What do we think about this comment? I mean, going off my ideas is one thing, lifting the whole concept is pretty much a no no, right? Also, kinda like stealing? Esp. since I'm seriously considering adding a chapter to my book about Twilight being modern Mormon proselytizing (albeit unwitting proselytizing?)

3. Mexican food lunch with a friend = happy belly.

4. I love the kittens, but they REALLY need to stop waking me up for lovings at 5am (Kneading, face kissing, whiskers in the ear as they purr LOUDLY to wake me up so I will acknowledge the love they are presenting me with.) I want to sleep at 5am.

5. Girls who I am working on a writing project with. Um, I'm ready to start promoting. Email me if you're NOT ok with that.


( 64 comments — Leave a comment )
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Sep. 23rd, 2010 03:47 pm (UTC)
2. What do we think about this comment? I mean, going off my ideas is one thing, lifting the whole concept is pretty much a no no, right? Also, kinda like stealing? Esp. since I'm seriously considering adding a chapter to my book about Twilight being modern Mormon proselytizing (albeit unwitting proselytizing?)

Well, papers like that quote other papers/essays/books/internet sources all the time, or paraphrase stuff they get from their sources. It would be better if your book were published, because in that case she (he?) would be able to use that as a first-hand account. I suspect she (he??) would cite you properly in her paper even without quotes, since she's got her professors looking at it.

I wouldn't be surprised if she got her draft works cited page returned to her with the link to your LJ entry marked as questionable, though. Besides, I think someone has already written a 100 page thesis paper about the Mormon influences in Twilight. It was very boring.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:04 pm (UTC)
I almost replied with a link to that thesis you mentioned. It was AMAZINGLY boring and missed a few points, I thought.

I'm just... baffled by the comment, I suppose.
... - judetwee - Sep. 23rd, 2010 09:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Sep. 23rd, 2010 10:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 23rd, 2010 03:50 pm (UTC)

I love that your daughter wore her bathing suit under her school clothes. Did she just run straight through the house and out the back to the pool?

I think that comment is a bit fishy. First off, citing a journal would get strange looks from her professors? In what universe? Sure, your LJ isn't solely devoted to the academic study of Mormonism, but professors are plenty familiar with the internet and using it as a research tool. Particularly so with a topic like this, where very little published resources would be available. I work in academia and I don't buy that excuse for a second.

Second, cannibalizing someone's notes, as they put it, is plagiarism. They aren't your ideas, ergo, you cite the source. And it sounds like this isn't the only post that s/he's read on the subject, which suggests to me that s/he knows full well that you are working on publishing a book.

What I don't understand is why they bothered to comment at all, even anonymously, when they intend to use your work.

I don't know what kind of legal protections you have in this case. It would be worthwhile I think to find out which of your LDS notes they intend to use. I'm sure some of what you've posted can be found in other places, but then, why bother to use your notes at all if it's general knowledge? It sounds like they want to use your ideas and that is problematic. Hopefully this person will respond to any request to not lift your work.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 03:57 pm (UTC)
First off, citing a journal would get strange looks from her professors? In what universe?

I think the commenter meant the wording of the entry in question, with such fabulous quotes like 'And he's like, "No, you are a special, holy vessel and I shouldn't tarnish you. The rest of your humanity will be filled with longing for the sparkle peen!"'
... - stephanierb - Sep. 23rd, 2010 04:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - stephanierb - Sep. 23rd, 2010 04:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - spiralleds - Sep. 23rd, 2010 04:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 23rd, 2010 04:16 pm (UTC)
Oh Emily, you cutie.

2. OH HELLS NO. Plagarism.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:08 pm (UTC)

And thank you, I thought as much.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 04:41 pm (UTC)
Re: 2 - if she means, by cannibalizing your notes, she's using your post to find the original books/sources and read them herself, that's a-okay.

if she means, by cannibalizing your notes, she's paraphrasing what you're saying and not citing you as the source, that's unethical and, oh, plagiarism. (I'm guessing that she's not going to cite you, even for her paraphrasing, since she said that her professors would look askance at her quoting from you directly. I can only imagine that's because they're looking for her to use academic sources, not because they're anti-internet (which could be implied) - all major citation styles have ways to cite journals, blogs, forums, databases, webpages, so if that's her objection, she's uh, wrong.)

I think it's worth asking her to clarify what she means.

Also - if she imagines that she's the first person to be taking this to academic circles, she's very, very wrong. A friend of mine (who's a lit professor) has been at three conferences in the last year that had Twilight panels.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:10 pm (UTC)
Right, right - I mentioned in a comment above that if they meant the links that I got from places like LDS.org, then clearly that's acceptable. If they're going to take my concepts, discussions, interpretations, etc., then... And how are they going to cite me? "Stoney321?" Um, I can't imagine that holding up in a professional academic environment.

And there are BOOKS on the themes of Twilight! Only one thesis I know of deals with the Mormon influences, but the philosophical analysis of that series (excuse me while I crack the hell up) has flooded the world.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 04:45 pm (UTC)
Yeah, no. My professor always taught us you're citing IDEAS, not words. If you didn't think of it, if you got that idea from another source, YOU NEED TO CITE IT. Even if she's not quoting you directly, she's still using your thoughts; ergo, she must site you or she can be called out for plagiarism. Plain and simple.

As for getting "weird looks" for citing a blog -- if she's working with pop culture and society, it shouldn't be a problem. It's not like she's going on Wiki and using it as her only source. I've quoted blogs in the past, and most professors don't mind as long as you're using other sources to back up your claims (if that makes sense). It sounds like this person stumbled upon your entry and decided it would make a good paper.

Also, I think it's one thing to use it in a paper for class that you don't intend to submit for publishing to a scholarly journal and quite another to present this to the rest of the field as your own work. It's still plagiarizing either way, but at least you're not professionally benefiting from the first one.

Besides, NO ONE can do it like you can, Stoney! Her paper would probably be lame!
Sep. 23rd, 2010 05:42 pm (UTC)
Exactly this on citing. Citing internet sources is getting pretty common, now.
... - stoney321 - Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 23rd, 2010 04:57 pm (UTC)
I had to say something, but you know you can screen or delete me, baby! <3333

ETA: *takes a tip from Emily, puts on swimsuit and gets on a plane to your place*

Edited at 2010-09-23 04:58 pm (UTC)
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:12 pm (UTC)
As per usual, your reply was reasonable, measured, and smack on, there will be no deleting! :D

COME JUMP IN I HAVE A ROUND INNER TUBE WITH YOUR NAME ON IT! (Not literally, but I have puff paint pens and can remedy that in a jiffy! *g*)
... - entrenous88 - Sep. 23rd, 2010 09:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 23rd, 2010 05:14 pm (UTC)
Yay for Emily! Emily going to school in her swimsuit puts me in mind of the times, as a teacher, that I have had to comfort little girls who have discovered after they have finished their swimming lesson that they have no undies. We had a bag of clean underwear just for this purpose. The other, more amusing, occurrence is when they realise that they have to get entirely undressed to remove the costume when they need the loo. Needless to say, they don't do it twice. :)
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:13 pm (UTC)
Hahahahaha, that's hilarious. I was that kid, let me just tell you. D'oh!
Sep. 23rd, 2010 05:31 pm (UTC)
2. Sounds like a guilty conscience to me. If I warn the originator of the ideas that I mean to use them then I can present said ideas as my own because nobody knows otherwise (except the true originator and I already asked her so that'll be cool). If that makes sense.

Either way. I cry 'PLAGIARISM'. Kita would get her flying monkeys I think.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:14 pm (UTC)
HA! Vindication! I thought it was the hallmark of a guilty conscience, as well!

I bet if I ask real nice (and bring her chocolates) Kita would loan me her flying monkeys...
Sep. 23rd, 2010 06:06 pm (UTC)
It's plagiarism. That she doesn't realise it's plagiarism, that she presents the whole idea of plagiarism as cute fun, and that she's doing a "thesis" on pop culture, that she seems to think she's the first person to come up with this, all add up to her being a pretty awful student at a pretty awful school.

Plagiarism. Cut and dried.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:15 pm (UTC)
LOL, what if the school she's attending is really a correspondence school where the admission policy is to Draw Me - that picture of the turtle in the hat. :D
Sep. 23rd, 2010 06:54 pm (UTC)
It's plagiarism. What's more, I think that she knows full well that it's plagiarism, or why not post with her journal? Even if she doesn't have one, a free LJ takes about three minutes to create? And even people who post anonymously on a regular basis generally have a signature they use.

She uses neither. Which makes me think that she doesn't want you or her professors to know who is doing this. I.e., she knows she's being a crook.

I think she's telling you because that way she can say, "Oh, I contacted the original writer...in an old post that she could easily miss and probably isn't even following any more, but I still contacted her. And I told her exactly what I was going to do, and she didn't say I couldn't! So I'm ALLOWED to do this!"

To maintain your rights to your work, you need to contact her immediately. Respond to that post and tell her that what she is proposing is NOT on and NOT allowed by you at all. Honest to God, this is in the same category with people trying to sell published fanfic (Lori Jareo and Lady Sybilla, anyone?). The Nonny Mouse is trying to sell someone else's meta rather than fanfic of someone else's work; that's the only difference.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:17 pm (UTC)
And I do track IPs, so if push came to shove, I could kinda sorta track them down. I'm with you - they know they're doing something wrong and are weirdly covering their tracks (but not.)

I think you've made a great point about replying with a NO YOU CANNOT DO THAT. (I have something like that on my user info page, but a reiteration is a good idea, thank you!)
Sep. 23rd, 2010 06:57 pm (UTC)
I think my eyes boggled so hard, they nearly popped out of my head. Yeah, the question of picking through what you've written and using it in her paper WITHOUT CITATION is a big no-no. Your posts are circulated well enough that some of your phrasing (sparkle-peeeeeeen!)are actually becoming part of pop culture/twilight lexicon and more importantly (IMHO), your pictures have put together a more subtle reference to exactly how the twilight world compares/contrasts with the REAL WORLD. (Yes, I still crack up about the Geronimo reference w/ the cliffs from the Princess Bride. "If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?" --->ageless parental admonitions put into a hysterical portrait of what Smeyers is encouraging. Did I just get too analytical? Whatever. Anon is trying to talk about pop culture, he/she should cite you.)
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:19 pm (UTC)
I just checked my hit stats and that post in particular has almost hit the ONE MILLION HITS mark. It was also linked on Slate, Jezebel, Pandagon, Cracked... It's not really obscure. (I think it's just because it's the only one as cracky as I made it, not that it's brilliant.)
Sep. 23rd, 2010 07:40 pm (UTC)
*gnashes teeth at plagiarism comment*

Let me know if I need to dig out my pitchfork and torch for that person.

Kittens (and pups) think "dawn == loving time." My sister's dog does not understand why I don't like her in bed with me. It isn't the sleeping that the problem: it's the waking.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:20 pm (UTC)
I will!

And heeee - it is loving time when I'm already AWAKE, not before, oy! (And guess who is climbing up the back of my chair, monkey-style, to give me sugars? WHY DO I LOVE THEM SO?)
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:11 pm (UTC)
This comment has nothing to add.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:17 pm (UTC)
This reply is pretty void of content.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:23 pm (UTC)
do you need one more person to say "blatant plagiarism"?

If so, count me in
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:25 pm (UTC)
Gehayi made a point that I need to reply with a what is essentially "Oh, HELL no!" to make sure it's understood that I'm not okay with being "cannibalized."

And thank you for chiming in, I'm really glad I wasn't over reacting there.
... - wickedsin - Sep. 24th, 2010 01:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:27 pm (UTC)
Ah ha ha. I remember those heady days of yore, when the lure of a pool to leap into pretty much shorted your brain out. Awesome. :)

And yeah - she's stealing. Sheesh. I hope she replies back. I hope she doesn't just slink away and do it anyway. Lamer.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:33 pm (UTC)
Oh, I'm sure they'll do what they're going to do anyway. And I'm sure they'll get hammered for it, too. :D

I just heard "CANNONBALL!" and a splash. GOOD TIMES.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:41 pm (UTC)
My lecturer is currently doing her PhD on Twilight - it's become the new BtVS of academic circles. Cannabalising is a big no-no (unless you're really hungry and you don't have any money for the vending machine) and someone would be an idiot to do it because it would be too easily found out. My constant asking of my flist about details because I'm too lazy to dig it out myself ENTIRELY DIFFERENT. LOOK OVER THERE, A DISTRACTION! lol.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 08:59 pm (UTC)
I mean, sure, we can all agree that babies are delicious, especially when carefully seasoned and braised, but my Twilight analysis?

And hahahaha, you are generating DISCUSSION about your thesis, which is perfectly acceptable! I guess.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 09:48 pm (UTC)

I should have time to do some actualfax writing during October, go me.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 09:59 pm (UTC)
I FEEL A BAKE SALE IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS. (But srsly, like, it's just sitting there and I want people to start cleeeeking and such.)

I AM EXCITE THAT YOU WILL WRITE. Just think of the SPN spazzing you can do! JUST THINK.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 10:00 pm (UTC)
Emily! That is hilarious.

The plagiarist is not. Has there been any follow up?
Sep. 23rd, 2010 11:59 pm (UTC)
She's a goof, my Em.

I commented to them, but I have a feeling that's the last I'll hear of it. Anonymous commenters don't get notifications that there have been responses.
Sep. 23rd, 2010 11:43 pm (UTC)
Agreeing with everyone else that its plagiarism. The bathing suit thing is too cute! I should have thought of that when I was working for this family in cleaning their home. They had a nice pool that I wanted to swim in after I was done but me was so tired after. =(
Sep. 24th, 2010 12:00 am (UTC)
My little girl is full of clever ideas that involve short cuts. :D
Sep. 24th, 2010 12:34 am (UTC)
I kind of understand the cannibalizing comment. Do I agree with it? No. But I can understand it. I've had plenty of professors tell the class that if it's not in the Library system (GALILEO) then we/I can't use it. If it's online and not on something like a medical science or the New York Times (Washington Post, etc) then it's not allowed. Even if it's a well-established internet source, like your Twilight posts that really tears something apart from an intelligent level. It's sort of like not being able to quote Cleolinda if it's not the in books because Internet sources are out.

Last summer ('09) I had to write a speech about a person I was introducing for some fake seminar. I chose Lexa Doig and had a devil of a time finding sources that were considered acceptable (needed 3 to boot) that were not fansites, Wiki, or her own mouth. And that didn't even need to be real sourced, like a GALILEO source. There were just requirements there.

Or in my online history class where we had to scan GALILEO or a direct source to counter an classmate's opinion or "fact." It was easier when discussing A Doll's House and the rights of US coalmining women in the 1850s, like the official website, but for other times it was more difficult but things like LJ aren't considered official - unless the source is (ie, a writer, celebrity, musician, etc).

I'm not sure if zie was planning on completely swiping your concepts so much as getting inspired. I don't know the person. I've done something similar before. Not stealing concepts but being inspired and looking at things another way. It truly depends on the professors, and I cite all my sources - even in comment posts on the class board.

Just from another perspective with some outdated and non-computer literate professors who think the internet is still in Usenet days and thus can't be helpful unless it's directly been sanctioned by what the school counts. I've had professors yell at me for using Wiki to find an answer...when they recommended it in the first place because I typically avoid Wiki, except for good reference/source links.
Sep. 24th, 2010 12:52 am (UTC)
The problem is that the comment left the idea that they were going to take my ideas and claim them in their thesis. Quoting Cleolinda, or something else that's a part of the blogosphere's culture is one thing, but you would say, "As infamous internet blogger Cleolinda said, you can't handle the sparkle." Or whatever.

If they were inspired to come up with their own thing based off my ideas, Mazel. But the way the comment was written no one else is getting the idea that they weren't planning on swiping my stuff.

(And a lot of the academics that are commenting here might have some snippy things to say about using Wikipedia as a source - that's considered a no no.)
... - veracity - Sep. 24th, 2010 01:10 am (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Sep. 24th, 2010 01:38 am (UTC) - Expand
... - veracity - Sep. 24th, 2010 01:43 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 24th, 2010 12:50 am (UTC)
Oh silly you. Kitties are not subject to time as we know it. They don't realize that it's 5 AM. All they know is that "hmm, I am awake. Therefore, I should be getting love and pettings, followed shortly by food. I should wake up Mommy so I can make her aware of this."
Sep. 24th, 2010 01:37 am (UTC)
LOL, I think you're putting to nice a face on my kittens. It's probably more like, "I will knead her neck, softening the tissue so that one day I will eat her." *kitten purrs in my ear:* "Mmm, you will taste delicious, my dear. Eat another waffle at breakfast." *rubs paws together evilly*

Sep. 24th, 2010 02:32 am (UTC)

That is all.
Sep. 24th, 2010 12:08 pm (UTC)
HEEE. Makes me laugh every time!
Sep. 24th, 2010 04:45 am (UTC)
Hmmm. As a new teaching assistant at Berkeley, I had to take one of those stupid online ethics courses, which was indeed stupid, but also revealed the startling fact that some 59 percent of undergraduates actually copped to plagiarizing more than once, so god knows how many have done it and won't admit it. Digging around a little, I found this article on students' changing attitudes towards plagiarism:


The change, namely, is that they don't really think that anything is plagiarism. "Meh! The Internet! Fair game!" they say. Or "My English professor told me that all writers essentially plagiarize from the writers who came before them. That originality is an outdated Enlightenment concept that employs penis logic and male ideas of the ownership of ideas!"

To which I tell them, "Try plagiarizing your English professor sometime, and see what she says about penis logic then."

So, yeah, I think you have cause to be a little concerned about that comment. There actually are MLA guidelines for how to cite Internet source material, including journals--and it's kind of like citing Samuel Pepys' diary. That you compose online doesn't change the fact that these are your words and ideas, and this commenter can't reasonably claim them as her own, even if you suffered no financial damage as a result. I could see a very interesting dissertation being written on the blogosphere's reaction to pop cultural phenomena, like Twilight...but simply deciding to use your words to support her thesis about Mormon mind control or whatever is absolutely and completely wrong. As I often have to tell my students, just because something is in the public domain doesn't mean that you don't have to say where you got it from. All "public domain" means is that you don't have to pay the author for it.
Sep. 24th, 2010 12:10 pm (UTC)
Samuel Pepys! Why didn't I think of that? I got a REAMING in high school from my AP lit teacher for not citing him in the proper manner, too. (Probably blocked it from my memory, it was an epic drubbing.)

And your last point is a fantastic one.
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
Sep. 24th, 2010 12:11 pm (UTC)
You know, I hope that's the case, too. But... I don't think so. (But I still hope it's so.)
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Are You Actually

Reading this? I'm just curious. Because that's really detail-oriented of you. Feel free to stop reading. But you can see that there's more here, so are you going to keep reading? Really? That's pretty dedicated. I'm impressed. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic, why do you get like that? See, this is the problem I have with your mother - yes. YES. I'm going there. It's time we put all of our cards on the table.

I love you, why are you doing this? After all we've been through? You don't have to be like this. You know, still reading. You could be baking a pie. And then sharing it with me.

Time Wot It Is

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