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Religion rant, and a question for you

So, most of you know that I'm writing about growing up in the Mormon church, both for NaNoWriMo and potential publication. In researching data to bolster my memories, etc. I came across one of the most bizarre things ever as "proof that the Book of Mormon" is historically, archaeologically, geographically, language-ography (is there a word for a language being an actual language?) truthful.

(For the record: no it isn't. Um, it's been shown time and again to be made up, those civilizations didn't exist, the purported language used is an amalgam of multiple other languages, and on and on. Also? Native American DNA isn't related IN ANY WAY to the Jews. Uh... that's what they believe. *cough*)

So, for those familiar with the story, a young man named Joseph was visited at night once a year for four years, instructed on his new lot in life as translator for "A New Testament of Jesus Christ," aka the Book of Mormon. In upstate New York, Joseph dug into a hill (Cumorah) and pulled out of a reinforced box - built into the hillside - a "book" made of gold plates. This book would be translated *cough* and become the 531 pages describing in excruciating detail of the mysterious and ancient people (this is the ONLY record of their "existence," mind) of the Americas. 531 paper pages are heavy enough, but these were on GOLD. PLATES. Lately, I've seen reference to this being changed from gold to a tin/copper alloy. <-- a world of what the fuck? This is 600BC. Tin and copper alloy.

But that's not the crazy stuff. The craziness is this - that those golden (possibly tin/copper alloy) plates were bound (and this is the important part!) with D-RINGS. Which shows that truly, God works in mysterious ways, for he made the Jewish Indians (of which there is but one record that no one has EVER laid eyes on and God took back to heaven with him) the original inventors of... a holy Trapper Keeper.

Yea verily! Behold the ribbed metal prongs - made cleverly of a tin/copper alloy that lo, wast smelted in vast pottery containers. Clear your hearts and fingers, for when the mighty d-rings snap closed, and yea verily I do sayeth unto you that thou wilt be caught unawares and feel a mighty pinch upon your flesh, and the flesh of your fathers if they do stand near unto you, for I am mighty and have giveth unto this, my Lost Tribe, the power and keeping of the Trapper, until time doth end and the judgment begins.

And divers others shall come forth with their circular binders, their copper-tin alloy that doth split in twain once it hast been threaded through a hole, and folded back not unlike the palm fronds to split apart with a high wind. But these are not welcome in my sight, for they were not brought forth unto the multitudes by my Jewish Indian engineers. Of which there is but one record, and I, the Lord your God, am sorry to sayeth that thou are filthy in thine soul, not unlike the swine and the swineherd who does tend the swine, and thou canst see it never. Nyaheth nyaheth nyaeth. I am the Alpha and the Omega of Mead.

~The Second Book of Caucasians 15: 2-3

This guy goes on to show that there were patents given 10 whole years after Joseph dug up and translated the book, which... what's his point? That Joseph should have been given the patent? The Jewish Indians should have? Because if it's the first, I will be SO HAPPY, because that means JOSEPH invented them (and they weren't found, ahem) and that just strengthens the whole "uh... you believe WHAT?" side of the argument. What I get from his going on about patents being awarded "after the fact" is that LOTS of people had that same idea for D-rings to bind paper. It's highly plausible that a guy visiting printing offices routinely would be exposed to PAPER BINDING ITEMS. Also: everyone awarded a patent for versions of the D-ring were in the PRINTING BUSINESS.

...it's not just me, right? You can see this, too? Or are you getting something else from his nattering on about patents? (Also, it takes FOR.EV.ER. for patents to go through, especially back then. Also, all the patents from July 1790 to July 1836 issued from the main building - it used to be ONE person that handled the nation's patents - were destroyed by fire. So people had to resubmit their patents. A lot of them were never recovered/resubmitted and are called the X-Patents.)

Finally: OCCAM'S RAZOR, PEOPLE. (The simplest answer is usually correct.) This is a lot of dancing and a lot of rig-a-morole to just say that you're justified in believing some wackadoo crap. And for the record: I used to believe WHOLE HEARTEDLY in this crap. And then I got smart. Yay, me! Wow. D-RING BINDERS!!! The hell?



( 64 comments — Leave a comment )
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Nov. 27th, 2007 09:14 pm (UTC)
*points to icon*
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:29 pm (UTC)
I MEAN, SERIOUSLY. *continues scratching head*
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:21 pm (UTC)
I'm so glad you were able to figure out how nonsensical this all is.
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:30 pm (UTC)
Oh my god, you and me both. I went through a few years' period of being incredibly angry at being duped - the wasted time and energy. Now I channel it into writing. *g*
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:21 pm (UTC)
Religion is not only freaky, but it's obsessed with pointless details. Gah.

Nov. 27th, 2007 09:31 pm (UTC)
Yeah - I keep bringing back that "the simplest explanation is usually the best." I mean, they had a "prophet" explain the dinosaurs by saying god made our world from OTHER WORLDS. See, dinosaur bones, etc. are a TEST!

What the friggity fuck!!?
... - domenowtrent - Nov. 27th, 2007 09:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Nov. 27th, 2007 09:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:24 pm (UTC)
language-ography (is there a word for a language being an actual language?)


a world of what the fuck? This is 600BC. Tin and copper alloy.

Tin/copper alloy = bronze. Been around since 4000 BC or so. ;-)

Apart from that, very interesting (in a WTF way) indeed. D-rings? Jewish Indians?


I really wish they would hang THAT on every classroom and courtroom wall. And I'm really looking forward to that book of yours.
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:34 pm (UTC)
I know that bronze has been around, I'm saying that they are now referring to the gold plates as tin and copper alloy. Like, those four words. (It's all a part of making things sound complex to fool people into believing. I've got a whole chapter on Faux Intellectualism working.)

And I need to research the use of bronze in the Americas in 600 BC. I don't remember hearing of any evidence of that from the ancient civilizations in the Yucatan... (Which is now where the Mormon church claims the Jewish Indians lived. And yet somehow, they managed to make it aaaaaaaall the way up to Upstate New York with their 2 ton golden journal/trapper keeper...)

GAH!! *clings to you and your sanity, omg*
... - beer_good_foamy - Nov. 27th, 2007 09:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - altyronsmaker - Nov. 27th, 2007 09:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Nov. 27th, 2007 10:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - dorantherook - Apr. 17th, 2008 07:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:28 pm (UTC)
People generally don't look outside at the context of what gets handed down to them, they look at the source and if it's an authority figure that they've hitched their wagon to all thinking and questioning stops. Which is why I'm going to invent a religion and wear spiffy suits, or long flowing robes haven't quite decided, and look authorative and make up whatever comes into my head PUT THERE BY GOD! DA DA DUMMMM!

Conclusion: people are stupid.
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:35 pm (UTC)
But the thing is, I would TOTALLY join a religion you created because a) there would be cake b) there would be gay sex - if only in reading form and c) there would be drunken revelry.

It's like a modern Pan orgy, with disco lights! (And your icon is cracking me up)
... - ljgould - Nov. 27th, 2007 09:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Nov. 27th, 2007 10:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:33 pm (UTC)
Brother Merrill, my Book of Mormon professor at BYU, was telling us that some Mormon (a historian) was having a fit because the Nephites wore lambs wool, or something, and sheep were not intriduced to the area until such and such time and Brother Merrill looked us all in the eye (it was quiet for like 20 minutes because there were 150 of us in class) and said, "This man has lost his faith. Had he kept his faith, he would disregard what he'd been told by the temporal world." Meaning, "So what if hundreds of historians, archeologist, and anthropologists think the BoM is bologna? The BoM says SHEEPS skin, and therefore it MEANS it, gosh darnnit."

That was my first semester at BYU. And that was my first solid indication that something was very VERY wrong with my life. The second indication was when Brother Merrill said it didn't matter who you married, as long as it was in the temple because in the Celestial Kingdom you can repick your eternal spouses anyway and everything we learned from Primary and Saturday's Warrior was bull.
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:38 pm (UTC)
THANK YOU FOR REMINDING ME ABOUT THE SHEEP!! (There are also horses in the BoM, and THERE WERE NO HORSES before Columbus!!)

I found a quote from... Dallin H. Oaks? I think. Him or freaking Hugh Nibley that said something like, "Even if it turns out that the Nephites aren't related to the Jews, it doesn't take away from the truth of the Book of Mormon." UM, YES IT DOES!!!!!

Brother Merrill said WHAT about new spouses?!?! Oh my GOD. He's freaking insane! (He was right about Saturday's Warrior, however)
... - domenowtrent - Nov. 28th, 2007 06:32 am (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 27th, 2007 09:40 pm (UTC)
language-ography (is there a word for a language being an actual language?)

Umm, someone mentioned "linguistically" but I also put forth "etymologically."

I've never understood the Mormon religion. I've talked to Mormon people, read the Book of Mormon (my brother, in one of his drug induced curiosities ordered it from the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints) and a couple other publications that tried to explain what the Mormons believed. I just...didn't get it.

Then I read The God Makers and thought, "Okay. Crazy people got together and created a religion based on the precepts laid down by Masons?" Freaky.


Edited at 2007-11-27 09:41 pm (UTC)
Nov. 27th, 2007 10:13 pm (UTC)
Etymologically! I'm having one of those days where I want to say one word, but can't think of it.

And that's pretty much what they are, with some wanna be Jewish tones, some Free Thinking, and the ability to have lots of sex in the age of repression. WOW.
Nov. 27th, 2007 10:01 pm (UTC)
Wheeeeeeeee! A religion that worships school supplies! Perfect.
Nov. 27th, 2007 10:10 pm (UTC)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. All hail the mighty Day Planner! (Oh, wait: THEY DO THAT ONE.)
... - lynnenne - Nov. 27th, 2007 10:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 27th, 2007 10:43 pm (UTC)
Nothing Mormons believe makes sense. So, this is not surprising to me.
Nov. 28th, 2007 12:11 am (UTC)
I really shouldn't allow myself to be shocked anymore, and then I read about holy trapper keepers.

(And now I'm thinking of The Holy Hand Grenade)
... - enigmaticblues - Nov. 28th, 2007 12:16 am (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Nov. 28th, 2007 12:25 am (UTC) - Expand
... - enigmaticblues - Nov. 28th, 2007 12:41 am (UTC) - Expand
... - fiveandfour - Nov. 28th, 2007 05:48 am (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 27th, 2007 10:44 pm (UTC)
I so badly want someone to make a D-ring bound 531 gold (or tin/copper alloy) plates trapper keeper. It could work. And it would be awesome.
Nov. 28th, 2007 12:12 am (UTC)
how awesome would that be if someone showed up with one, claiming they were the Real Deal? AHAHAHAHAHA!
Nov. 27th, 2007 11:06 pm (UTC)
Okay, wait, wait, wait, Stoney. Walk me through it again. Mormonism is real because God invented the Trapper Keeper?

Somebody's confused, and I'm honestly not sure who.
Nov. 28th, 2007 12:13 am (UTC)
Oh, no, no that's just ONE part of The Truth. Don't forget the Quartz Sunglasses of Language Translation, the White Indians (because they were good...)

... - darlas_mom - Nov. 28th, 2007 12:24 am (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 27th, 2007 11:23 pm (UTC)
You know, it makes sense to me. Think how much more practical it would have been if the ten commandments had been written on lined paper and brought down from the mount in a looseleaf binder. That way, if G-d later on found another commandment, no problem. Pop open the rings and slip it in! No fuss, no muss.

I give Mormons points for creative thinking.

And I am disappointed that you don't think I'm related to Native Americans. I was planning to claim that I am, in fact, The Last of the Mohicans. (Also, tap into that casino money. Damn.)
Nov. 28th, 2007 12:14 am (UTC)
And why didn't the Jew Jews (As opposed to the Indian Jews) create liquid paper? So - after a discussion on the merits of the new commandments required some adjustments - it could be done easy peasy!

And I'm sorry, but I've seen you and you just don't have the Innuit look. Wait, they're supposed to be Jews from the Tower of Babylon days... (I'm not making any of this up!! WHAT THE HELL.)
Nov. 27th, 2007 11:45 pm (UTC)

Oh, I saw this clip from Sweeney Todd and thought of you.
Nov. 28th, 2007 12:16 am (UTC)
ILU SACHA. And YOU for thinking of ME when you see HIM. :D (Which is as it should be, yea verily.)

Hahaha! Thank you for the link, I hadn't seen those yet.
Nov. 28th, 2007 12:40 am (UTC)
That just goes to show what I've always thought- LDS is remarkably like LSD. The LDS may induce hulicinations and strange trips.

*hugs* So glad you got smart.=)
Nov. 28th, 2007 04:20 am (UTC)
Hahahaha! Yes, they are... strangely similar. (And thank you - ME, TOO.)
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 28th, 2007 04:20 am (UTC)
I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THE CREATION MUSEUM, OMG. What on EARTH?! Wow. Oh my goodness, Anne, is it on level with the peanut butter proves creationism theory??

I will be pouring over that site in the morning, yes ma'am. (THank you for the link!)
... - fiveandfour - Nov. 28th, 2007 05:53 am (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Nov. 28th, 2007 03:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
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Are You Actually

Reading this? I'm just curious. Because that's really detail-oriented of you. Feel free to stop reading. But you can see that there's more here, so are you going to keep reading? Really? That's pretty dedicated. I'm impressed. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic, why do you get like that? See, this is the problem I have with your mother - yes. YES. I'm going there. It's time we put all of our cards on the table.

I love you, why are you doing this? After all we've been through? You don't have to be like this. You know, still reading. You could be baking a pie. And then sharing it with me.

Time Wot It Is

April 2017
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