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TV and Very Strong and Angry Opinions Ahead

First, Southland last night was EPIC. Good lord. Recap is here, and I'm telling you, if you're not watching that show and you love the craft of writing? You are doing a huge disservice to yourself. (FM, you're excused because of the blood. :D)

Second, GLEE was epic. And this is where I'm going to go off on a rant about fandom entitlement, and how it's bled into the media, etc. Pre-emptive SHH for anyone that wants to challenge me on my feels. ALSO: SPOILERS FOR LAST NIGHT.Collapse )

Vitriolic, I know. I just cannot take any more of how bratty this fandom can be. I feel like there are two fandoms for Glee: people who love to hate it, and me and about four other people. Whatever, they're quality folks, and smaller parties are more fun to me, anyway. One of those quality people has made an amazing and heartfelt post about why the LGBT stories mean so much to her.

If you have anything negative to say, don't you dare drop it there. Her LJ is not the place.

Comments

( 81 comments — Leave a comment )
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zyrya
Feb. 23rd, 2012 02:06 am (UTC)
I'm not generally a negative person, but I do love to hate Glee and so I very much appreciate that you make it clear that HDJM is not the place for that. It's beyond time for internet "monitors" to set boundaries on behaviour and interaction.
stoney321
Feb. 23rd, 2012 02:13 am (UTC)
You are wonderful, so you know. I have no problem that people want a place to do their gleeful (hurr) hating. I just don't want it in my sandbox. I love that you'll respect that - and hopefully know that I'm not denigrating YOU personally. Because I would never do that. <3
war_of_ataraxis
Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:03 am (UTC)
Last night's glee made me start bawling -- I don't remember ever doing that to any of the story lines before, but the pain in the Dave scene was just so real. I've had some emotional difficulties in the past few months, dealing with issues I'd thought were long gone and for some reason last nights show just punched me in the gut and it kind of broke me a bit. </p>

It made me nauseous to see people complaining that they're exploiting/exaggerating the pains of the LGBTQ community -- how they act like Kurt was a total ass in acting as if being gay is the only bad thing that could happen and everyone else needs to STFU. I'm not usually big on the "if you've never been there you can't understand", but thats exactly what this is. Getting pregnant in high school and being kicked off a cheerleading squad is in no way like being gay and hated for it. The pain that some of these kids go through -- it almost makes me want to be a mom just so that I could try to really make sure I raised at least one great kid, gay, straight, purple, dinosaur, whatever.

All in all, thank you for saying all of this. I continue to watch glee because I do love it, despite it's flaws and last nights episode really got me. I knew what was coming from the second Dave's scenes started and I was crying before I even got to the ending. It was a very far cry from where they've been lately and they did it wonderfully. (and Darren finally got a song that was wonderful for his voice! My fan girlish side adds)

stoney321
Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:26 pm (UTC)
Max absolutely sold that story, didn't he? And I just couldn't take any more of the negative BS on Tumblr, etc. DONE. It's like they don't understand what the show is about, or what the characters are really like. IDK.

I don't mind people wondering about flaws, concerns, etc. It's the "fuck this show, they're so stupid, they never, blah blah" and it's EVERY.SINGLE.WEEK. Why?

(Oh, DARREN. As if I didn't find him dreamy enough as it is...)
rockinhamburger
Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:35 am (UTC)
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. Seriously, this is everything I've been feeling for approximately the last six months, and with no idea how to put it all into words. I'm dizzy with how you've expressed my exact thoughts about the fandom and its entitlement, and the way people complain about every goddamn thing. I do not understand why some in the fandom invest so much time in finding every little thing to hate about this show. WHY DO YOU WATCH IT IF YOU HATE IT!? And to hate a show that is genuinely changing hearts and minds, and just generally helping to shape generations of kids and teens? God, I get emotional just thinking about it, and people complaining because they aren't getting enough Klaine make-outs or solos for their favourite characters? Ugh, fuck off.

Really and truly, thank you for saying this. It's been weighing on me for ages, and I just didn't have the courage or the right words to put it out there. THANK YOU.
stoney321
Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:28 pm (UTC)
I am SO SO GLAD for all of the positive people coming over to talk about how they want it, too. You are not alone, we all need to be more vocal and active in a positive way to counterbalance the ugly, imo. I just...this is not the fandom experience I want, you know? I want thought and discussion that is interesting and not volatile. I want meta and fic and excitement and... Bah.

And really: come join our band of merry men that love this damn show! (Hee.)
... - stoney321 - Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
midnightsjane
Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:36 am (UTC)
I watch Glee and love it despite all its ups and downs, but I avoid getting anywhere near the fannish stuff, because I know how crazy it is.
Last night's episode had me weeping into my tissues almost from the start. When Dave started laying out his clothes, I knew what was coming and said out loud "oh, Dave, no, no, please, no". I was pretty impressed that the show would go there, and I thought it handled the whole issue really very well. Kurt was awesome. And then the cliff hanger.....omg. Do NOT drive distracted, people!

stoney321
Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:34 pm (UTC)
Hopefully all of the people starting to creep out into the light in this post will make a corner of fandom that is pleasant to interact in. That's my hope, at least.

I was right there with you, crying out to Dave. Holy crow, the distracted driving issue is HUGE with me right now. HUGE. (I have teens almost old enough to drive.)
tabaqui
Feb. 23rd, 2012 05:00 am (UTC)
I'm not a Glee watcher (though i'm thinking i want to watch this episode) but i totally understand your frustration.

I just don't click on - or even read - some journals anymore because the people are doing the exact same thing except about Supernatural.

They hate it, it's awful, it sucks, it's been 'ruined' because of this, that, or the other, they've hated it since season three....

I have no clue why they're still watching, but i can't stand to read that kind of stuff. If it makes you so unhappy - stop watching! What's the point? Arrgh.

Love the boyfriend/boyfriend school dance story - that's awesome and amazing. Good for them!
stoney321
Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:35 pm (UTC)
It may not hit you the same given that you won't know the bullying/closeted storyline that built to this one, but still - it was powerful television.

I have heard that about SPN since the beginning, which did the job of keeping me away from it. That's something I'll never understand, either.
... - tabaqui - Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
wowbright
Feb. 23rd, 2012 05:24 am (UTC)
I hate to type on my kindle, so I'm just going to say YES YES AND AMEN.
stoney321
Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:38 pm (UTC)
(Ha, I hate typing on mine, too.)

THANK YOU, AND HALLELUJAH!
... - stoney321 - Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
darksunlight
Feb. 23rd, 2012 07:02 am (UTC)
I absolutely loved last nights show. I teared up several times. I think they handled the attempted suicide EXTREMELY well... but I think they kind of made things go overboard by cramming in the texting and driving thing at the end there. It was just awesome and heartbreakign episode... so let's kill/maim a character at the end, whooh!
stoney321
Feb. 23rd, 2012 04:48 pm (UTC)
While I think there was a bit of a rushed pace through the ep, I didn't mind where they chose to take Quinn's story. They telegraphed something bad happening to her pretty hard throughout the ep. But that's me.
out_there
Feb. 24th, 2012 01:28 am (UTC)
. I feel like there are two fandoms for Glee: people who love to hate it, and me and about four other people.

End of the day, I think if you're in a fandom that makes you feel like a bitter old fandom queen (or an entitled brat), it's best to leave it behind and find sunnier pastures. Fandom should be a fun, sparkley place full of awesome things and thoughtful posts and squee. All that hate and rage... well, it gives you frown line wrinkles (according to Kurt) and who wants that?
stoney321
Feb. 24th, 2012 01:46 am (UTC)
Are...you directing this at me?
... - out_there - Feb. 24th, 2012 02:19 am (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Feb. 24th, 2012 02:25 am (UTC) - Expand
... - out_there - Feb. 24th, 2012 02:32 am (UTC) - Expand
... - stoney321 - Feb. 24th, 2012 03:19 am (UTC) - Expand
ravelqueen
Feb. 24th, 2012 07:30 am (UTC)
That is a wonderful rant. I mean I had my problems with the execution of the story-line (mainly that I felt it should have deserved more time, though I do understand the complaints about no trigger-warnings), but I didn't even think about it being emotionally manipulative, mainly because...of course it is! It's a TV-show for pete's sake, that's what it does to get us to care.

And all possible sloppy execution aside, it is a powerful message, that may actually reach a broader audience, exactly the people who don't come in contact with places that will help. The ones most at risk. I'd rather have a bit of stilted dialouge with good intentions and a amazing response than keeping everything super pc and reflected, but only available to, in the end, people who already know of all the options.

I have only been in the Glee fandom for...a month? something like that and while I enjoy the stories, I'm really startled by the amount of vitriol going around. I've been reading in fandom for about 8 years now (and I've been in a shit-load of them), but I have never seen this amount of agression. I don't even know where it comes from, why fans of a silly show (that is more often than not really broken in terms of normal tv-show standards, hello character continuity) seem so negatively invested.

I was once a bit weary to join the Supernatural fandom, exactly because I was intimidated by this possiblity, but they have all been nice. Here I only shared a comparison of song size per character and had 2 character hate comments.

Has the fandom always been like this?What changed that people don't live and let live but feel the need to tear down other peoples ships/opinions etc.?
stoney321
Feb. 24th, 2012 02:14 pm (UTC)
Oh, it absolutely should have been the focus of the story line, and Regionals another episode, but this is Glee. And when I think of things that are emotionally manipulative I think of something like a Lifetime TV movie where they make you love/like a sweet young wife and then have the husband set her on fire just so we can cheer her on as she petitions Congress for a new bus stop sign. "Oh, look at what she's overcome!"

I want to hug and squeeze your second paragraph, because EXACTLY.

I'm just like you re: fandom. Years of involvement in multiple fandoms, and there is something really...special about this one, right? The great thing about this post is how people are coming out of the woodwork to look for other sane fans, so at least you know now that you're not alone. :D (And I can point you to excellent fic, meta, etc. All without animosity.)

The fandom has been like this since I started participating, and I'm sure before. It's a new breed of fan - the ones that live for anonymemes and demanding that people write them more fic, where it's perfectly acceptable to take someone's unique story idea and co-opt it without a by-your-leave. But I'm learning how to avoid those places, and who I can enjoy the fandom with. It's a small group, but they're all intelligent and thoughtful at least.
spiritwild
Feb. 25th, 2012 06:21 pm (UTC)
Just. Thank you so much for everything you've expressed here. The entitlement, negativity and blind, me-first attitudes are a large part of the reason I am extremely wary about participating in online fandom. Which, in the case of this particular fandom is super unfortunate because any RL friends I have who even admit to watching Glee are extra negative about all of it, all the time. so why watch it then?!

It took me months to admit to watching and enjoying this show, but I cannot let go of this beautiful mess. I may get frustrated with the way a certain storyline was handled/dropped or the exclusion of certain character developments I thought would have added so much more punch, but. It's a 50 minute show with a giant, ensemble of a cast, and is quite obviously playing a long game in terms of various story arcs and character developments. Not everyone can be featured all the time (imagine if everyone were like Rachel Berry at her most intensly self-involved; it would be like watching a live-action version of the tumblr shitstorm). It showcases Real Life in the sense that real life is messy and complicated and can't always be boxed into neat, hour-long stories. Real people are messy. They may not always do what we expect of them. In instant-gratification-time, we call this poor development, character assassination, shoddy writing. In the long game we call it realistic character development, a study of humanity. People do change. This show, with all of its mess, goof and tears is one of the only things these days that can make me feel feelings. I've struggled with depression and anxiety for years. By the time I found this show I had essentially locked away feelings and thrown away the key. Too scary. Easier to just be numb. Then Kurt wormed his way into my heart and suddenly all of these beautifully imperfect people and their messy, human, never-resolved stories dug their claws in and started breaking down my walls. Months later it is still a painful process, but I cherish this amazing thing that can make me cry and laugh within seconds, and the vitrolic hate elsewhere on the internet for this character or that, or the way a moment that touched me so profoundly is dismissed as lazy/manipulative/untrue/you-name-it... it just fucking kills me.

Speaking of entitlement and instant gratification. I've been lurking in fandoms since I was 14, though rarely interacting before a few months ago. I've never seen anything so out of control as the Glee fandom. I liken a lot of it to my experience with teenage StarKid fandom during the SPACEtour - full of stepping on toes, un-ironic/totally self-involved grabby-hands and a total lack of anything resembling personal boundaries, respect, or acknowledgment of the existence of other individual's experiences. I won't speculate on what factors go into this because it just makes me upset and angry. Instead, I'll just stay in my happy (if somewhat lonely) corner, spoiler-free and appreciating the heck out of your thoughtful posts here and recaps on HDJM.

LONG COMMENT IS LONG AND TMI. (Sorry!) Basically, I adore you and the things you write. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one unhappy with the landscape of Glee-fandom-at-large. It is nice to not be totally alone in my corner. Tea and cookies for all!
kseenaa
Feb. 25th, 2012 10:11 pm (UTC)
I am not following the show (it does air in Sweden though), I've just seen an episode or two, but I never... "got it". I just... don't like it that much. BUT! And here is a big fucking BUT! I do however, admit it has impacted a lot on the LGBT community. And that, I find, is a thing of pure beauty and strength. It doesn't matter if I like the show or not. If it helps people, then it is of the good. :-)
mangofandango
Feb. 26th, 2012 12:28 am (UTC)
I completely agree, yo.

I mean, I read a lot of reactions to "On My Way". I appreciated the ones that had thoughtful things to say, even if those things were negative, so long as they were *thoughtful*. But I have always disliked people who stomp all over fans and can't get behind anything and can't accept anything less than perfection. When I am fannish over something, I generally want to squee a lot, and if I want to critique, I'm going to do it from a place of...well, thinking, and explaining, and relating. It's hard to do any of that ina a vaccuum, and way more fun with friends. :)
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Reading this? I'm just curious. Because that's really detail-oriented of you. Feel free to stop reading. But you can see that there's more here, so are you going to keep reading? Really? That's pretty dedicated. I'm impressed. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic, why do you get like that? See, this is the problem I have with your mother - yes. YES. I'm going there. It's time we put all of our cards on the table.

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